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We need to clarify the in/out criteria for these factors.

We need consensus around mental ill health to reconcile both sides of the slide.

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There are children and young people who have been admitted to Tier 4 settings (generally from living at home) that are not known to CYPMARP or High Cost

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For ease of reference I'd also look to PBENG.

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Often not.

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that a definition, criteria and assessment should be collaboratively undertaken to determine the needs and who and how we will meet these.

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Not always. However in part this is due to not always having a multi-agency formulation of what placement the child actually needs and how other services will support them

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Need to consider thresholds for children and young people to be considered in or out

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Analysis of need and joined-up evidence-based support.

Joined up commissioning packages.

Tracking progress through intensive packages/interventions to prevent drift and delay.

Shortage of (for want of a better phrase) tier 3.5 provision.

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method of independently reviewing decision making through GSCB

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Step down provision through Trevone Wellbeing units.

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There are no agreed threshold or definition to guide professionals.

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There are no agreed threshold or definition to guide professionals.

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There are only a very small number of children, namely 48, who currently are in scope for CYPMARP. This is a very small percentage of the children requiring additional support.

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Specialist residential schools

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there are children with complex needs that are undiagnosed so are not catergorised as 'complex needs' . we look at and respond to behaviour rather than trauma , mental health, etc

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Sadly no, due to availability of appropriate provision; whether that is residential provision or a foster home.

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There isn't necessarily need for a clear definition of what's in/out or what complex needs means. What we need is to be able to recognise between services/across agencies how we work together to meet the presenting needs of children. The scope of the services (and their roles) is the problem not the definition of 'complex'.

'Qualifying health needs' is a justification of funding agreements.

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Not always as where young people require health intervention, health settings are not always homely, but on the other hand homely settings do not have the equipment and environment to provide health care

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Not always as where young people require health intervention, health settings are not always homely, but on the other hand homely settings do not have the equipment and environment to provide health care

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Joint Funding agreement, lack of resources, lack of specialist skills from carers

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Joint Funding agreement, lack of resources, lack of specialist skills from carers

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If we are defining someone as having 'complex needs' I wouldn't expect them to live in Supported Accommodation (they are unregistered in this scenario).

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Lack of specialist knowledge and skills

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Example with a young person progressing well in their health and wellbeing, able to progress GCSEs and to independence slowly

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it is based on exploring the market. it is often when they are at their most vulnerable as we are usually reacting to a behaviour

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Often the 'right place' doesn't exist and we have to accept that. What we are continuing to struggle with is how we utilise our community and multi-agency services to provide the right support even if the placement isn't perfect

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Lack of cohesive understanding of needs 

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Lack of cohesive understanding of needs 

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reacting to a behaviour - at a point of crisis

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some residential homes have well trianed staff who can meet childrens needs

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There is a focus on developing a definition due to funding issues and agreement of responsibility in relation to CiC. There are a high number of children who could easily be defined as having complex needs but live at home

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collaborative multi agency care planning

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collaborative multi agency care planning

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A focus on the child's presenting needs and why these are happening, responding to the underlying cause as opposed to solely focusing on finding a placement