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children oops haha

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So this leads me to wonder if he puts on a brave face to appeal to the group of childreb

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Jack's character has changed. He is not the same person that he was at the beginning of the book

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i like how lillian said the kids aren't killers at "this point" because this could be foreshadowing for later if they start killing each other

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I disagree that Jack is still afraid to kill, because now he is obsessed with tracking and killing a pig. He is being driven mad by this obsession

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I'm in love.

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I love Lillian's point with the fact that Jack might not be as strong as he says he is with the fact that he did not kill the pig.

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I like how anna mention that there might be a reason the author didn't mention the kids background too much

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Tambien, Elizabeth, tambien.

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Lillian! Mob mentality! Why did Golding do that, do you think?

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I think Jack is putting up a "brave" front so that he is more respected, but he actually is scared.

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They try to put Piggy below themselves because but is it possible that Ralph and Jack could actually be threatened by Piggy?

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Ralph and jack have no control of the group, Ralph says "we need to build a fire" and they all run up to the mountain without listening to everything else he has to say. I think that Jack and Ralph will realize they need more power and it will become more of a rule by power.

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I love what Lillian keeps going back to with the fact that appearance affects decisions and how people listen to you.

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Very true Lillian. Piggy has great ideas and he is very intelligent but the boys do not respect him because of his appearance and personality

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Which is better, to rule by fear, or rule because the group respects you? Which is more effective? Those are two different questions.

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They have food, but JAck just keeps saying, "we want meat", showing that he is becoming more Cannibalistic and less civilized

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Thanks for asking for clarification, Liam.

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Like he constantly is trying to hold the power even though the person who was nominated to hold the full power was Ralph. He is constantly trying to make the choir boys follow whatever he says and he is clearly trying to make a point

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Jack wants more power and control; this can definitely be dangerous if he is in power

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Jack has shown signs that are definitely concerning! Stabbing tree's, going in depth bout slitting a pigs throat... I am scared for the other characters

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And yes, Jonah...Jack ain't so great. Kind of a mix of insecure punk and domineering jerk.

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What do you mean grace?

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we said that in the first group

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Yes, Lillian. We (all) need to discuss how appearance affects us.

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Lillian has a really good point about mob mentality

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Going off Lillian´s and Anna´s idea of Jack´s responsibility, I think Jack doesn´t want the actual role and work of the leader, but he wants the title.

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I disagree with jonah because jack tries to convey the compulsion to track down and kill that's swallowing him up

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Jack is definitely sketchy in the power

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Ralph was just pushed into the leadership role and is actually just getting ideas from Piggy

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Yes Arianna I agree with you. Jack is not such a great leader but appears to be because he is cooler and appeals to the others more. Ralph is more responsible but that does not appeal to the reckless children.

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Interesting point, Jake! Piggy has been pegged, and doesn't seem to be able to correct it.

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I agree with lillian that piggy's appearance definitely could be a huge reason why he's overlooked

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i agree jonah, no one listens to him

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Yup, Ava H. I agree. Pay attention to this as you read.

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Jonah makes a great point about nobody defending Piggy besides that one time about his specs

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Man v. Man, and Man v. Self, Jonah. Well done.

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Yes jonah, we see that in simon hiding the clearing from everyone else

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true Liam like they will adapt to their surroundings

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Please note: It's SIMON who first verbalizes that maybe the island isn't good. That'll be important later.

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Wowza...such a HUGE point. Well done, Ben. The juxtaposition of the innocence of the littluns and the hidden ugliness lurking on the island.

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FABULOUS! Well done, 1st group.

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So, Sean, the little government is already starting to fail. Good job spotting foreshadowing.

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Will Ralph and Jack regret ignoring piggy?

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Good point, Lillian. Why did Golding make this choice, do you think?

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And now we're into Man v. Man

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There is an obvious power struggle between Ralph and Jack

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While they're talking I can't help remember how hard it was to talk with the "magic conch" when we did the Aliens activity. How do the others use this so easily? Why are the background characters not speaking up and putting out their own ideas?

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conch counter-productive?

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the only power is in ralph and jack

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So, the rule about the conch was the first rule of the little island society government. Golding wants us thinking about how well rules in society work for the individuals in the society.

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The conch only works if everyone respects the person with the conch

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Lillian: your comment hints at a bigger issue...in what ways does 'who we are' affect our ability to rise to power?

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Because Piggy is overweight and not athletic, people view him as less of a leader than Jack or Ralph who are athletic and hardworking (when building the shelters and hunting, etc.)

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I think the whole thing with not respecting piggy is breaking the rules so i wonder how long all the rules will last

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I agree with what elizabeth is saying, after they got an idea the conch had no power over the boys. The conch only has the power when ralph and jack decide to give it the power

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As a teacher, I want you all to know that this seminar demonstrates well that these kids read. Can you tell?

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I think lexi is starting to get into the deeper symbolism of the book

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I think each character has an aspect of themselves that they can use to help each other. But the people value more strong characteristics that Jack or Ralph shows, rather than more of an intellectual trait that Piggy has.

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Piggy is acting like he's better than everyone else and most people don't like that

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Is the conch unfair?

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i agree with liam saying it doesn't actually have as much power as they are giving it

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That's interesting, Ben. I don't typically think of Piggy as aggressive, but you're absolutely right. He is.

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Jonah! That's just what they said! They copied you!

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smh

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I disagree with Grace on the fact that they abuse the conch. I think that they don't give certain people, Piggy and other characters, enough time for the conch.

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This group jumped right into one of the MAIN conflicts: Man v. Society

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I think you should add how piggy has been more agressive when he has the conch

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Good point lillian, But I think they will start to become one with the island as they become less and less civilized

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I agree with lilian because the book states that Ralph was picked as leader because of his looks

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I agree with Jake. Piggy's first impression definitely affected the way he is viewed now, in a bad way

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I agree with Jonah. I really do believe that the power struggle and everything will make the boys turn against each other and break down the boys

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I agree with grace that people are abusing the conch

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I agree with Lillian because in the beginning, they keep mentioning how the island is beautiful.

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Power is more important than intelligence because if the leader is weak no one will follow them. To have stability on the island the leader needs to be tough and respected, piggy is neither of those things.

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Following what Jake said, I think Piggy's character could spark more of a discussion point. Piggy's impression was right of the bat about his appearance and issues (asthma). He doesn't get enough credit or attention, and is rather underestimated because Ralph & Jack overpower him.

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Yes

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Also piggy doesn't really like to have fun

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I agree with Anna to the fact that everyone is oblivious to everyone but Jack and Ralph.

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I also agree with what ava is saying how the boys are pick up on how the leaders Jack and Ralph are treating piggy and since they don't respect him the boys dont see a reason to respect him either.

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hello

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I agree with the fact that the little kids are indeed frightened of something, but I agree with Jonah´s point in saying that their fear is of themselves.

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the conch is only of power when it is a respected persons hands

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I think Piggy has a desire to be able to speak with the conch, he wants to be seen as much of a leader as Ralph or Jack

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YES

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hi

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hello

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Hullo

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I wonder what Piggy could do to make his voice carry more weight

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hello

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excuse me

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hi

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its piggy

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heenlo

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I think sean has a good point and that maybe the "snakes" or "bestie" could mean somthimg more than a physical danger

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I agree with Grace about the fact that Ralph and Jack are looked to as leaders, even though they might not be the most intelligent or the best leaders.

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wow

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hello

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