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Q1: Walton decides to discontinue his journey when he is sure if they go further, him and his crew would die. He probably also learned from observing Victor, that knowledge and glory is not worth risking people’s life for, and in the end it doesn’t get a person very far. Victors loved ones were killed because he didn’t know at what point to stop pursuing knowledge and glory, sanity didn’t overrule him. But for Walton, sanity overrule and he knew when to turn back.
Grace Spaletto

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I think Walton let sanity overrule him when victor told him about his story and how fame and glory led him to insanity. I also agree with Daniel when he said victor wasn’t always insane, how he started off with an interest in science, but was driven to insanity, and Walton could’ve been on a similar path had victor not warned him about these dangers. -kelly

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-PA

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The one agreeing with Julianna was Grace^^^

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I agree that Victor could be better considered as a symbol for Adam and Eve if one is to consider knowledge as the forbidden fruit. In Paradise Lost, it is Adam that falls for the temptation of the forbidden fruit and so does Victor (knowledge), not God.

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As one power gets stronger, another rises to challenge it. Like Dark Knight and Starwars, the villains rose only from the power of the heroes. This relates to Frankenstein and Paradise Lost as they both made their demons. God could've promoted Satan to a higher job or head of Hell, but instead, they rose against God and they raged a war. Frankenstein could've taken a more responsible role but instead, lead to a lack of care from the monster and makes the monster into a monster.

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This shows the parallels of how Mary Shelly wrote Victor and God. They both create something God creates Adam and Eve, and Victor creates his creature. They also both posses this knowledge that leads to pain and suffering. God has it originally and gives it to Adam and Eve, whilst Victor has it and gives it to Elizabeth. Tim

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I definitely agree with what Julianna said about how God is similar to victor because they both created two different creatures. However, I disagree with the idea that Adam and Eve are similar to the creature, as I believe the creature is more similar to Satan because Satan directly tried to destroy things for God, just as the creature killed Victors brother and tries to bring struggles to his life.

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I like the comparison between God creating Adam and Eve and Victor has created the Monster. Interesting view, since previously characterized the monster as the apple, not as Adam and Eve. Jonathan theis

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Aiyana (question 4)- God is creator dude in PL, Victor is the creator of the Monster. WAIT IS THE MONSTER ADAM AND EVE??! So the forbidden fruit is the murder. Wowza. Interesting.

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i agree with what everyone is saying and how victor who created the monster felt guilt because of his danger he brought. It can be compared to how God created Adam and Eve and they sinned and brought sin upon themselves. - is

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goof

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Luke-
Victor is being characterized as a creator, or a God. The book could be a innuendo how it feels to be a god, or how god felt. He failed, and had to send his only son to save us from our sins. He took a consequence for his actions trusting Adam and Eve, or the creature with other life and now everyone suffers.

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Good point mossimo. You wouldn't raise a child or a dog without being responsible for them. They have to be taught morality and what you should do because if you don't, it will act more instinctually than human. People without parents and father figures are more likely to be murderers and other criminals, but if he had been a good responsible parent that taught the creature, it could be more responsible. - PA

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Jane what’s so funny

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I liked how Crash made the connection between God and Victor, and the creature with Satan. I think how the reference to Victor as his “creator” (as said by the creature) directly ties into Paradise Lost with how Satan loathes God for banishing him even though he essentially created him and Hell, labeling him as a hypocrite. - Cymphany

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I like what Kishori said because it also ties to what Cymphany said in the channel about domino effect. It shows how victor failed to think about the possible reprecussions of his actions and creating the creature.

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I agree with how crash said that the creation of Adam and Eve as well as the creature and the not caring enough of them led to them reaping the consequences. Adam and Eve were not helped to combat Satan and Frankenstein was not taught morals therefore they both had consequences. -AD

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I don’t believe that Victor’s lack of responsibility led to William’s death because at that point in time Victor thought the monster to only be after him. Also the monster was newly created and didn’t necessarily have control over its faculties. Eventually Victor does become responsible for Justine’s  death, but even if he had, would the people have been able to stop Frankenstein’s monster, or even believe him?
-HT

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I think that by leaving the creature by himself was ultimately what led to the creature feeling abandoned and alone, and being motivated to find his creator. If victor had not left the monster by himself, the monster might have stayed in Ingolstadt and not killed William. Victor should have mentored the monster, and shown him morality and how to behave in society, and not left the creature to fend for himself in a new world. ~Ryan Tsau

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I agree with grace, I think he should've created a plan on what he was going to do with the monster because after creating it, he didn't know what to expect so he went to sleep and thought it was going to work out. Victor then felt guilty because it caused the death of Justine. And he was overwhelmed with guilt. - js

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She victor realizes that the monster he created has brought so much destruction towards his family through the death of William and the arrest (later death) of Justine, he cowardly confronts Justine, and is unwilling to take responsibility for Williams murder. He does this because he thinks everyone will think he is crazy, but by not speaking up, he allowed Justine to be killed and later leading to his guilt.
This shows him not being able to let himself talking personal responsibility for those deaths.

Plus, he was very selfish and didn't take care of monster which cause it do cause havoc, which shows his lack of personal responsibility. ~Julianna Mandarino

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There is a lack of personal responsibility when it comes to the death of both William and Justine. First we see a lack of personal responsibility when Victor allows the creature to escape. Once the creature escaped, his assumed crime was the murder of William. Since Victor is responsible for creating the creature, he is responsible for Williams death. Justine was blamed for the death of Justine and she had to take the blame for it. Victor was aware that she is not guilty, however he did not take personal responsibly for this. Both of these crimes were not committed by Victor, however he is responsible. But although he does not take responsibility, he feels very guilty about it. -SL

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I think leaving alone although the majority of his no responsibility with the monster was important in the way it turned out, it also has to play into emotional irresponsibility and when you abandon this brand new creature and basically leave him as if he's nothing, the creature will of course get mad and twisted. The lack of caring for the monster I feel greatly contributes. It wasn't just him leaving it alone for the chance for it to escape, it's also abandoning it emotionally and making it feel unloved and therefore murder. -AD

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Aiyana (question 3)- When he made the monster, Victor didn’t have personal responsibility because he doesn’t take care of himself at all. Then he left the monster in a room and went to bed. Since Victor left the monster, the monster must’ve learned to fend for itself by killing stuff or whatever. The brain the monster got must’ve not had the capacity for empathy. Before Victor made the monster, he didn’t actually think about what he was really doing —> he really just wanted to make something snazzy.  Victor didn’t do anything when he decided the monster killed his brother.

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I agree with what Amber said about his lack of responsibility right after making the monster, if he showed that he cared about monster maybe it would have turn out differently and the guilt that Victor later feels could have been avoided. -Sarah

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The discussion happening right now reminds me of the domino effect, because Victor left the creature to its own devices in the beginning, as well as not telling anyone of his creation, it aided in shaping the shapes of the deaths that occurred later. This can also be linked with fate I think tied in with personal responsibility, because he had to have known that it would ultimately be his downfall in contributing to his own decisions.

- Cymphany

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Good

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-Mossimo

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-Sarah

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I think what Carlin said about the monster relating to the forbidden fruit is very interesting because like Tim also added it parallels by the creation of the monster being unknown and dangerous and also although things brought knowledge they were also very dangerous. -AD

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Luke-
Victor’s responsibility and lack of open-mindedness is what ultimately resulted in Justine and Will’s death. If he had been accepting of his creation, which is a marvel of science therefore fulfilling his dream, it might not have done such deeds against him. As Mossimo said, the creature was basically a dog. I disagree with this statement, because the creature new how to speak and it was very intelligent. Victor just ditching the “dog” on the street was what lost it’s obedience.

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Emily^

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^j.d

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I liked the point about what Crash said about how Eve (paralleled with Elizabeth and Justine) aren’t entirely guilt-ridden about what they’ve done. The roles they share help create the downfall in Frankenstein along with Victor. - Cymphany

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I agree with Grace's point. Elizabeth and Justine do bring  out the worst in Victor, I think it's because their deaths made him realize the horror he had unleashed into the world.

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I’m not sure if the female characters are testing the males.......????

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I agree that the female characters bring out the worst of Victors because like we see after Justine’s death Victors becomes depressed from blaming him self or her death. I also agree with what Will is saying because with Justine’s death Victors realizes his role in what has happened and his part of putting this pain on Elizabeth and his family .

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I think that the men, Adam and Victor, refuse to take responsibility for their choices so they try to push it on others, Adam on Eve and then Victor on anyone but himself - ca

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I agree with Jonathan and his statement about bringing out the worst of victor. I also agree with it relating to Adam and Eve and how eve brought out the worst in Adam. Justine and Elizabeth make victor suffer more because towards the end of the chapter we saw that victor was suicidal. - js

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Aiyana (question 2)- Again, Elizabeth and Justine are able to show the worst part of Victor just like Eve does that to Adam. —> the female characters test the male characters. Tim’s comment about how Justine dying was kinda like eating the forbidden fruit was pretty interesting. Crash —>Ladies get blamed for stuff connection was interesting. Monster could be the forbidden fruit or Satan or God. Wowza. Interesting. The forbidden fruit is the monster because Victor got the knowledge and was afraid of it.

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Luke-
As stated before, Justine and Elizabeth are tied to the Frankenstein family because of death. Eve could be tied to the downfall of mankind, and there exile from The Gardens of eden. Tim stated that after Justine dies is parallel to the consumption of the forbidden fruit. Patrick stated, that like Eve, all/most of  the women in Frankenstein brought upon pain to the rest. Justine’s death brought Misery as did the forbidden fruit. I agree to all of the above.

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Luke^^

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The forbidden fruit could represent the monster. Satan is convincing Eve to eat the forbidden fruit which could represent that Victor is giving his “torrent of light” to the monster. Justine could represent Adam as Adam and Eve are both thrown out of Paradise just like how Justine dies and Victor feels a painful guilt that the monster killed William and could’ve saved Justine.

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-Mossimo

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I agree with grace, in that it was very irresponsible of Victor to just leave the Monster alone, which then led to the death of William and Justine. Also, Will had an interesting point that Victor should have prepared more for this Monster, and that he should have been ready to take care of the monster. He should have been prepared for what he was getting into. He was too obsessed in the idea of discovering something new --Jonathan Theis

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I agree with grace and Jonathan about Justine and Satan being parallels within the two stories because they both bring out the bad of the main characters. Justine brings out the bad in Victor and Satan brings out the bad in Adam and Eve. -Will Hamilton 8th

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The two women can be portrayed as eve in paradise lost because by them dying and the guilt that follows, they are testing Victor in his mental state because as we learned throughout the story, victor is shown to have suicidal thoughts, as well as Elizabeth was. So by bringing out the worst in Victor, they are pulling him, or peer pressure him to a state where he will be drawn out of paradise (death) ~ Julianna Mandarino
(Agreeing with Grace and Jonathan)

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Authors typically put a little piece of themselves into their work, so it’s not surprising that Mary Shelley added a bit of her own past to these characters, females especially solely because most of what had happened had happened to the women in her life. So I agree with those who said it was a personal connection. -KP

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I agree with crash becasus they weren't really guilty because they were influenced to commit the crime like satin with eve and the monster with Justine.

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DONT FORGET TO WRITE YOUR NAME or initials SO I KNOW IT IS YOU :)

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I agree with all of you guys, I believe that the women are portrayed as strong but innocent women. I also agree with amber by making the point that Justine is showing humanity and sees victor as a kind person - js

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I agree with Amber with her quote as that since Justine is being accused of a murder, she is still showing humanity in expressing the kindness that Victor is showing

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Patrick A- It was just confirmed that William and Justines death were indeed the fault of his monster. Victor had sacrificed his social, emotional, and personal health to make this creature to help mankind, but the moment it was created, he saw it as a monster, a demon, and left it. This is very irresponsible, as even if he had been a failure, a real scientist would stick with his findings, instead of leaving it to roam amongst. This resulted in the deaths of two people very close to him, and while I cannot post the quote, during the trial, he knows Justine was innocent but didn't take responsibility for it and let another person die.

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Although Mary Shelly’s parents and background would make us assume that she would’ve developed more strong willed/demanding women, She instead tends to stick to the time period of the story. Most likely realizing that such “radical” ideas might create some future political impact, She chooses to keep to the “golden standard of women” for each of her female characters. These outlines make each of the characters seem more relatable and more likely to actually exist, rather be in a fiction book. Justine and Elizabeth are also tied to the Frankenstein family by death, which is a recurring theme of all females in Frankenstein.

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I like what Ryan said about the similarities between Shelley, the author, and Justine, the character in the story. I see this as a way for Shelley to fit her life and her struggles into her story. She may use this as an outlet for her emotions or as something to give the story a more detailed background because of her personal experience the details will be extremely accurate and realistic. -Will Hamilton 8th

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I agree with Caroline, and Amber, Shelly characterizes the female characters as being strong -Jonathan Theis

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I agree that the power of women shines through with them but I believe that their relations to the family is what makes the women more relatable to Shelly- Patrick A

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I agree with the statements made about Justine and Elizabeth being more submissive characters, whose hardships are influences to Victor. Elizabeth's suffering ultimately brought her to victor, and Justines death caused Victor to realize the severity of his situation and feel guilt. The women further the gothism, by being innocent and pure yet facing such hardships. - Delaney

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I agree with Patrick what he said about the women’s role. It is what i summarized also. - Q

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Shelley has close connections with Justine due to the feeling of death around them. Justine is being accused of killing William and Mary Shelley is accusing herself of being the cause of her mothers death. A parallel between Justine and Mary Shelley being around death.

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It makes sense that Williams death gets blamed on Justine such as how Mary Shelly’s mothers death would have been blamed on her with her mother dying in childbirth. The female characters and a sort of softness and sadness and also adds context to Victors isolation since he is around these women who are associated with death and sadness -B.P

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Heyo- Q

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Quin haftl is cool

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Ok yes ma'am

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Aiyana (question 1)- Elizabeth and Justine serve as a way to characterize Victor. Like when Elizabeth is a really calm kid and Victor is a little bit of a meany. Ooooo I didn’t know anything about Mary Shelley’s life, that’s gnarley. Patrick’s comment about being an outsider was very interesting I haven’t heard that before. Also Elizabeth and Justine are very sad and suffering —> the annotation of die with you says that lots of Shelley’s family was suicidal.

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I agree with what was said about how women in the story are usually brought up with something that has to do with sadness, or death -mariana

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Period 8

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Both of the two women can be see as a trigger to Victors guilt and sadness from losing someone who is seen as "family" to victor. With the two women both dying with also the death of his mother can show how dark and lost Mary Shellys family relations were. She lost so many close relationships and this is how she portrayed it in Frankenstein. Julianna Mandarino

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8th hour is better- Patrick A

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I agree with Patrick and I believe they are vital to the story to make Victor realize that in Elizabeth's case that he loved her and in justines case he begins to feel guilt and the effects of death. This helps by giving strong women characters that readers and Mary Shelly herself can connect to. -Emily

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The start of 8th hour

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As Victor starts to call the creature his “creation”, he starts to understand the responsibility and blame that comes with it. Once Justine is executed, he starts to become more depressed, understanding that he, ultimately, is the cause of all the death and suffering inflicted upon the family via the creature. This also links the creature to the Devil, especially in Victor’s point of view. The first words Victor speaks to the creature is the term “Devil”, as he blamed it for the harm it caused. The creature is also linked to Adam and Eve, and linked Victor to God. Victor did not expect the creature do be a hideous murderer, but he ended up leaving or banishing his creation.

- Andrew Duran

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Victor being called the ‘creater’ by the creature connects to paradise lost because Victor is like God and the creature is like the Devil, God had made heaven and Lucifer (the Devil) was kicked out by god. As Victor had kicked out the creature, they both basically have been kicked out by those who had created them or they had looked up to. They both are rejected souls that want revenge for being rejected.

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Victor being labeled as the creator makes him the “godly” figure of the story, and brings his story closely related to Adam and Eve because he created the creature like god had created Adam and Eve and leaves the story open to analysis on if god and victor have similar stories and if the title of being the creator is him taking responsibility for what the creature does like god or just gives him the satisfaction of what he has done in the world of science. O.R.

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I think that Victor definitely blames fate for his misfortunes, but takes responsibility for his accomplishments, because it is just as much easier for him to not have to take the emotional burden  for bad things that have happened. I feel as though victor has a very difficult time dealing with death and sad emotions like defeat or failure, and by blaming these things on fate and not himself he can come to terms with bad situation and feelings much much easier. -AW

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“Frankenstein, your son, your kinsman, your early, much-loved friend; he who would spend each vital drop of blood for your sakes, who had no thought nor sense of joy except as it is mirrored also in your dear countenances, who would fill the air with blessings and spend his life in serving you-he bids you weep, to shed countless tears; happy beyond his hopes, if thus inexorable fate be satisfied, and if the destruction pause the peace of the grave have succeeded to your sad tormenta!”(Chp 8) Here you can see how fate is being used to justify his actions. (VD)

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I believe that his habit of blame fate could have manifested from a young age. His father had also connected their misfortune to fate. “Our misfortune is doubly hard to us; we have not only lost that lovely darling boy, but this poor girl, whom I sincerely love, is to be torn away by even a worse fate.” -C.O

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“But I, the true murderer, felt the never-dying worm alive in my bosom, which allowed of no hope or consolation” (Shelley pg. 85). Victor takes responsibility for Justine and Williams death, and he begins to feel more and more guilty- RA

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I think that at the beginning when creating his creature he had good intentions, but when his creation goes completely wrong I feel like he just blames the whole thing on fate. Also he blames his mother's death on fate and just seems to breeze right past it. (J.S)

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he has his intentions and how he wants things to go but he seems to believe fate controls how his ideas and things will eventually turn out d.c

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I think that Victor when he originally creates the monster feels regret and therefore tries to forget it and not take responsibility. Whereas later when he realizes the destruction and this responsibly that he needs to take because he can't let it kill others without action.

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He had blamed fate on multiple occasions, first when his mother died. He had said that it’s natural and it would eventually happen and he had shown no emotion towards it. Then when his brother had been murdered he had said that his death was fate because the creature was going to kill him and it couldn’t be helped. Even though we know that if he hadn’t created the creature or confessed the truth to himself it wouldn’t end as I had. And then Justine being condemned he had said that it had been fate for her to have died and the the creature was a achievement that was also fate. -C.O

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V.P.: “My mother was dead, but we had still duties which we ought to perform; we must continue our course with the rest and learn to think ourselves fortunate whilst one remains whom the spoiler has not seized,”(70). When his mother dies, Victor doesn’t really question or dwell on it, he simply just accepts it as something that happened outside of his control and he couldn’t do anything about it (aka fate).

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Yes Victor blames fate for his misfortunes. First, Victor believes that it was fate that his mother died and it didn’t matter because it was bound to happen eventually. Also, after Victor created his monster, he avoided it and let it free to the world without the knowledge of how it would effect the world just because he didn’t like his creation. But later in the story, when Victor meets the monster and learns that it has feeling when it confronts him, he agrees to go with it to its house, so maybe Victors opinion changed slightly because he began to realize that he hadn’t created just a mindless creature, but something with feelings that might actually be valuable. Also when he is telling the story to Walton, he had to take responsibility for the monster, so with time I think that he begins to blame himself for misfortunes.Grace Spaletto

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Justine and Elizabeth have similar roles that can relate to Paradise lost because just like Eve they really don't have control of their fates and it is in the hands of men. (J.S)

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Victor blames fate for all the misfortunes around him. When his mother dies, he blames it on fate and doesn’t mourn her death. The same thing happens when Justine is condemned for the murder of victors brother. Even during this time, he doesn’t blame himself for creating the monster and letting it go. After Justine is killed,  some character change becomes evident as he does occasionally admit that it is his fault, but he is still blaming fate in the end. EH

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He does blame the creation of this creature on fate and thinks that this just happened because of nature and fate had brought him to doing so because of how the nature of his life had worked. He got these beliefs after he realized that the monster is ugly and not what he wanted it to be, he started with good intentions when creating the monster but when he realizes this monster is bad he blames it on fate.
O.R.

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Elizabeth is forced to except a future that’s out of her reach and that she can not control. She is already to be Victor’s like property. She’s been controlled since being adopted and has very little to no say. She’s forced to accept Justine’s death even if she knows other wise or better. When she had spoken up for Justine no one had listened nor did they try to listen. -C.O

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I think Victor can be seen as god while Frankenstein is Lucifer since he was taken away his humanity and love from his creator. What happens later with William can be seen as enticing Eve with the Apple and bringing suffering with them. S.A

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I disagree with those that said that Victor felt that fate was to blame for Justine being condemned and his brother William dying. He did not blame fate for those deaths, he blamed himself and he began to take responsibility for those deaths by saying that HE was the one who was responsible because he made the monster, and if he hadn’t made the monster Justine and William would be alive. He also begins to feel guilty. -RA

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I think that Eve is compared to Justine and Elizabeth, I think this because like Eve both Justine and Elizabeth are creating the monster in their own right. This is because they where fueling what Victor would do while making the monster. Eve had fueled or convinced Adam to eat the apple and become banished from the garden. Along with him not taking the blame because there is no more people to take the blame for him. - CM

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Victor blames fate on things he makes himself believe he couldn’t have done anything about, but in reality he uses fate as an excuse to not make himself feel bad since he knows he could’ve done something about it or when something is his fault. Then when there’s a positive outcome to things, he takes responsibility for it. -CR

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Eve gets convinced to eat the forbidden fruit and I think it connects to how Justine had been convinced that this was her fate even though she knew she was innocent and took the blame. -KU

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The way the roles of Justine and Elizabeth relate to paradise lost is, that Victor screwed up and Justine died. Just like Eve screwed up and Adam ended up screwing up also. Then Elizabeth tries to help but fails. Like the son of god in paradise lost. I.C.

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Justine had been influenced by what she had been through to roll over and take the blame for the murder, sort of giving into the situation she had been put in. Elizabeth had been put into a situation after she was adopted by sort of becoming a belonging of Victors, also being put into the situation and giving into it.
J.P

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Both Justine and Elizabeth end up with a similar story to Eve in Paradise Lost or the Bible. While Eve was tricked into eating the forbidden fruit by the serpent, Elizabeth and Justine fell victim to the actions of Victor’s creature. Although the actual blame and outcomes were not their fault, each female characters are forced to accept the unfortunate turn of events. This situation relates Victor to Satan, as ultimately Victor is at fault, and his actions directly cause the death of William, the trial of Justine, and Elizabeth growing sorrowful and gradually more depressed and sad.

- Andrew

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Justine and Eve’s roles in Frankenstein and Paradise Lost are similar in that they both had to take the blame for what went wrong. They are also different though because Eve is the one to blame in Paradise Lost for sinning while Justine was forced into her role by the people around her. Though Justine was innocent, she still had to accent the blame and die because of it. EH

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Elizabeth and Justine can relate to the role of Eve in Paradise lost because they all didn’t have a say on what their fate was going to be, and it was decided by someone else for them. Justine and Eve were both forced into a citation that caused them to take or pass on blame. They were all easily influenced and controlled by others .Grace Spaletto