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1- Why is there a need for teachers to talk? - Different Types - formal - positive ...etc
2- Conversations that inform instruction
3- Conversations behind closed doors
4- Conversations with Adults across Career Stages
1st year
New to a building with 10+ years
Close to retirement
2nd career teachers
5- Conversations between teachers & students
6- Difficult Conversations
7- Conversations that influence classroom practices
What were you thinking???

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Administrator to Teacher Coaching & Feedback

Administrator to Student

Teacher to Student

Teacher to Teacher

Student to Student

Administrator to Parents

Administrator to Administrator

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Why is there a need for teachers to talk?
What would a typical conversation in a teachers day look like?

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What is the most appropriate place to have this conversation?

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About six years ago I worked for a principal who truly believed in the power an administrator had on student achievement at the student level. His charge was urgent. We were at the bottom in student achievement and we had to do something different in our building.  Administrators meeting with students in a consistent fashion was not a new and innovative strategy but in our school it was. He divided us up according to our grade level assignments and we were charged with meeting with our highest at risk students every week. In 6th grade there were about 40 students who were identified to be the most at risk. All of the students were served in special education and all of them had failed both the math and reading portion of the CRCT the previous school year. At first me & the other AP divided the groups. We reviewed the same information with the students - the ABC's (Academics, Behavior & Course Grades) with an individual report for each student, but we weren't having the same conversations with our groups. We decided to merge the 2 groups and relocated our group to the Bandroom. Even though it was a large group, we were able to establish positive connections through our conversations that occurred in this weekly ritual. We still talk about the students in this group of special students and they sometimes return to our building to visit with younger siblings. We remember all of their names and they are still astonished that we remember them. They made as much  of an impact on us as we did for them.
The following year we were still identified as a Focus School. We still had the need for such a group but it did not fit in to the plan for improvement that year. We went a different direction that year and the conversations were in teacher groups and did not have direct contact with the students. We did great work that year with the support of the GraduateFIRST initiative, but the student link was missing that year.

(teachers produced a GraduateFIRST video to highlight the needs of our students - possibly transcript of the video???) The work was generated through teacher conversations about student data and poverty.

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When I became a local school administrator I worked for a leader who journaled. As she helped me develop some of my leadership practices she suggested that I begin to try to journal to capture my daily thoughts and think-abouts. I must admit that I was not a very good journaler those first few years. Different years in different buildings with different responsibilities has influenced my skill at journaling. As I look back over the past 15 years of administrative journals I have stowed on a book shelf in my family room, I found evidence of a plethora of conversations I have had over the years. Some years I filled 2 full journals. Some years I only used a slight quarter of the pages. Some years I journaled from the front & the back of my journal during the same year. One thing never failed; I have started each new school year with a new and unique journal. Another thing that each journal stores for me is memories of important and critical conversations. When I was working on my doctoral studies at the University of Georgia I established separate journals from my work journals. I remember thinking at that time that a document review of my administrative journals would make for an interesting dissertation! I'm thankful for the opportunity this writing has prompted me to do - read and review my personal documentation. Things that seemed important for me to remember at the time have sparked memories of all of the different conversations we encounter in the day-to-day act of simply being a local school administrator. The good, the bad and the ugly .... it's all there and I hope that some of my experiences in the trenches at the local school can help others hone and improve their own skills as they lead in their own individual positions.

As I review my journals I am also thinking back on so many missed opportunities. Some years, I took copious notes about specific teachers and counselors I worked with or supervised. Things I thought were worthy of writing down at the time but not necessarily worthy of feedback. My own personal reflection of my journals at that time is that I used it as more of a documentation log of sort. I don't recall that those thoughts were always and consistently followed up on with the other person. I have a few years that I went back and color-coded some tabs. It didn't take me long to determine that they were typically regarding teacher concerns or student concerns. It was used for documentation for teacher or student removal from the school. I can't help thinking back on those missed opportunities that I simply jotted down as opposed to using them to influence improved practice or improved behavior. My more recent journals do not have as many notes about individuals and things I deem as concerning. Now, I consider myself more equipped to deal with concerns right when they occur. If I see something concerning in an observation, I ask the teacher to meet with me immediately and we work out a plan for improvement. If I see a teacher struggling with student behavior, I jump in immediately to support the teacher and the student.

Craft Conversations are Culture Creators.

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These are the 2 most important skills a school administrator needs.
It's not a "given" just because you have the title.  It takes "talent" to coach & provide effective feedback.

Teachers want, need and value feedback.
It needs to be frequent that's brief; not lengthy. They need craft conversations that are non-evaluative & not managerial.

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Our job is fragmented with very little closure from task to task. We manage so many tasks at one time that are very different and require code switching.

We tend to over analyse which can lead to misconceptions.

Capitalize on strengths in your building. Don't ignore weaknesses but don't focus on them.

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Mr. Wilbank's said - Don't forget to do what's IN the box. Don't get preoccupied with doing things outside of the box. Do what's in the box very well by doing the ordinary extraordinarily well.
The good we did yesterday doesn't count today. Make every day & every conversation count.

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Maybe some stories about teacher request for student removal from their classroom.

Teachers need to feel safe & not threatened
(Ms. Murphy's story)
(Ms. Gadziala's story - Raymond)

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Henderson family
Follow-up with teachers after conferences
(Stringfellow's story - tell parents how to parent)

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Conversations to set Expectations with Groups or New Leaders

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Conversations to set Expectations with Groups or New Leaders

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When I am charged with leading a new group or working with a new teacher in the building who will be in a new leadership role there are critical conversations that need to occur to ensure there is a shared understanding. This helps to establish cultural expectations for the group.

Supervising Counselors who have never had a shared supervisor or expectations for duties & responsibilities from the same person.

New Department Chair - new to the district - not use to being "supervised"

8th grade team leaders - establishing expectations across the grade level and on team

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER Administrator to Student Conversations

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER Administrator to Student Conversations

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Other conversations that are super important in a school building happen between administrators and students that often lead to one-on-one conversations with teachers.  As a grade level administrator I received LOTS of student statements. All student concerns/statements were taken seriously but those that were accusatory toward teachers were always addressed quickly and thoroughly. The student voice and how their concerns are addressed directly impact your student culture and listening to students has always been a priority for me as a school administrator.
One afternoon as I was rushing out of my office to supervise a class transition to connections classes a student stopped me as I was leaving the office and asked to speak with me. Hoping teachers were transition with students for supervision, I turned around and invited her in to my office to tell me what was going on. She was almost in tears. On a note about meeting with students - over the years I was changed the way I speak with students. I never sit behind my desk anymore. I have my office set up with a conversation space. This has been different based on my space, but it is important that you are able to sit side-by-side with students when they are expressing concerns. I always have tissue close by and a pad of paper and something to write with. When you write down concerns the student is sharing with you it really conveys the message that you are hearing their concerns and that you are taking them seriously.
First she told me that a teacher had made her feel uncomfortable. When this was first expressed, I asked her if she felt comfortable writing the concern down. She did, so I gave her a statement form and asked her to write down her concerns. Next I left her alone in my office to have a few minutes alone with her thoughts. I offered for her to sit at the table and then I quietly left. She took about 30 minutes to filter her thoughts and I entered and exited periodically to monitor her progress being careful to not interfere with her thoughts. When she was finished, I didn't go to the statement she handed me, I asked her to tell me her story. The next steps I took with the student were critical to ensuring she felt supported. I listened, I made sure she knew I would address her concerns with the teacher. I made sure she knew I would call her parents to let them know what was going on and that her concerns were being addressed. I asked her when she had class with tat teacher again and asked if she felt comfortable returning to her class the next day. Since she didn't, I made arrangements for her to go to another teacher for the same subject that period until there was a resolution.
It turns out that this teacher had a history of failing to establish a positive supportive classroom environment for her students; not just this one. In fact, the previous 2 years, it was consistently documented in her evaluations. I had been her evaluating administrator the previous year as well as the current year. I remember working with the teacher on her Professional Development Plan and the activities that were in the plan. Maybe I had failed this student. Maybe the activities assigned and the reflective conversations we had did not influence her practice. As that school year progressed, there were more and more students who began to express their concerns. One student had a history or mis-behaviors and the teacher was constantly on him for his behavior. His perception was that he was the only one being called out (need to finish Colin's story)
(Pattillo's story)
(Davies Story)
(Frost's story)
(Cornell's story)

The thing is...all of our students have a story.  It may be a cookie cutter story but it's still a story. For the most part, that's not the case if students are acting out. There is usually something that is a barrier to their success. When students struggle with academics what do we do? We teach, right? What is our immediate response when there is a discipline incident? If we look at it as a teaching opportunity and a chance to mentor or coach, we are addressing issues that impact the learning of that student.

It's important that students in your building see you as approachable and not just someone who is there to hand out discipline consequences. If problems behind discipline issues are not addressed then has the situation really been addressed? Teachers refer students to administrators often times because they are overwhelmed and don't see any other options. Students need to opportunity to reflect on their behavior and set goals for improvement.

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER      Conversations behind closed doors - what do you do with them to improve student achievement? Administrator to Administrator Conversations

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER      Conversations behind closed doors - what do you do with them to improve student achievement? Administrator to Administrator Conversations

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How do we judge teachers at the end of the day? And when I say "End of the day" I mean when we make decisions about who teaches what in a school house. Whe the leadership team decides what is best for kids. These conversations that take place behind closed doors can sometimes be brutal. Brutal reality is what sometimes drive decisions and when you are classified as "failing" "low performing" (insert different titles across different states that means the school is at the bottom).
The team pulls up test scores and failure logs to make judgments and then ... make decisions.
Who has the highest failure rate in the building? What else is this teacher certified in? Where can we move them where they will do the "least amount of damage" to student achievement?
I have learned over the years from my movement from building to building that there is a sort of what I call "waiting period" when you join a new team. The waiting period includes first of all NOT telling everyone how you did it in your last building. Boy did that smack me in the face HARD my first year as an administrator. First of all, I was right out of the classroom and a brand new facility that was considered affluent and state-of-the-art. I'm not sure what I thought I had to offer in one particular conversation ... abut exactly what ... I don't recall. I do however recall the reaction of one of the veteran members of the administrative team.  He made sure I knew that things weren't the same here and what worked there WILL NOT work here! He was right. He was in my face making sure I got the point and stormed out of the meeting which was informally called in the principals office one afternoon. I thought about his reaction and decided to self-appoint him as my mentor. Over the years Cat has been someone that I know would always be there for me. That instinctive reaction he had to me as a 1st year administration has always stuck with me and now speaking up in the right way drives my conversations with colleagues day-to-day.
Back to that under-performing teacher. What decisions are made to support student achievement are not always the right decisions to support teachers.  There is a teacher who suffered the consequences of low achievement in one building I have worked in. Math achievement was at an all time low for the school. Not only the lowest in the district but very near the bottom of the state. The result was checking her certification to see where she could do less damage. It was decided to move her to a social studies classroom. This is what would be best to help us increase student achievement in math. Fast forward six years. During that time she has served as teacher of the year, team leader and content leader for social studies. She is the first one there and the last one to leave in the evening. I didn't "know" this teacher when she was abruptly moved from one content area to another but I know her now. I have never supervised her in her content area but I have in her grade level. I have dealt with numerous parent complaints about the way she speaks to students and her unwillingness to work with students to improve achievement. When I say "worked with her" I mean having conversations with her.  Perception of others reality is sometimes harsh to address or accept. If you don't address perceptions with direct reality, then the person is not given an opportunity to improve.

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER Teacher to Student Conversations - They Matter

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER Teacher to Student Conversations - They Matter

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How do students improve academically? Do they improve through a smiley face at the top of their paper or a frowned face? How about feedback such as "good job!" or "You're on the right track!" - does that tell a student how to improve their work? When I think about the greatest influences on improving student work I think of the influence of the on-on-one conversations teachers have with their students. Formative Instructional Practices seem to be all the rage right now but what does that really mean and what does it look like in the day-to-day activities in a real-live classroom? There is so much to accomplish to stay on pace with curriculum calendars and pacing guides. How do teachers find the time?
First and foremost, I think it is important for teachers to know that their feedback MATTERS! What is meaningful feedback? What does it look & sound like? Language arts teachers have traditionally been held responsible for teaching writing. That is no longer the case.  Teach reading and writing is now considered every teachers responsibility.
Over the past 15 years I have supervised in some way shape or form every content area in a school building. The message has always been the same when I meet with teachers about improving student achievement. How does the student know what to do to improve? Some teachers through the years struggle with this question. I recall a conversation with an ROTC instructor I supervised. The instructor did not consider himself to be a teacher. It was a "My way or the highway" type of environment in the classroom. In his defense, he had never been held accountable for student achievement or even had the first class in pedagogy that other teachers are taught in foundational educational courses. I began working with this instructor to make a shift to viewing himself as a "teacher" who had influence over the development of his students. We began our journey that year in a not so pleasant way - parent complaints and demands to remove students from the ROTC program. I was not about to lose such a prestigious program for a school that had worked so hard to get the program in the building. Did you know that it is truly an act of congress to get a ROTC program in a high school?
We started simple with student journals. He was uncomfortable at first "hearing" student voice and reasoning but by the end of the year, his feedback on paper grew into meaningful learning conversations that helped students with reasoning and in our end of the year conference, he was able to note improvements in student writing ability.
Sometimes judgments are made and instructors; who are expected to be "teachers", are not given a chance to make improvements.

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Personal Conversations that Matter to those who do the requested "thing" - starting meetings on time - how do you address this?

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Personal Conversations that Matter to those who do the requested "thing" - starting meetings on time - how do you address this?

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Don't let the teachers in your building who are doing the right thing think they are getting reprimanded for things they simply aren't a part of. For instance, when meetings don't begin on time because half of the attendees come in late. Don't send out an e-mail to the staff telling them the importance of beginning meetings on time. There were still HALF of the attendees there ON TIME! A strategy we use frequently in our building is to mark the sign in sheet at the start time with a small dot to indicate who was not there at the beginning of the meeting. Then before the next meeting for that group someone from the leadership team takes the time to speak with each of the late arrivers individually. It allows for a personal conversation to address the need to begin on time as well as a personal connection to that person to let them know that someone cared enough to find out if something personal was going on that morning that caused them to be late.
A member if my leadership team told me about what she described as a Epic Fail when she was trying to stress the importance of arriving to a meeting on time. She decided to give the participants an opportunity to write on a note card why they were late as a Ticket out The Door. The other teachers names were placed in a drawing for small tokens as a thanks for arriving on time. Well that did not go over very well with those who were late! The needed additional note cards to "Tell their Story" as to why they were late.  Those teachers were fuming! (See Kathy to remind me of the other things she did that did not go over well with this group of teachers)

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER                                                Helping teachers get through a melt down

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ADDED TO ORGANIZER                                                Helping teachers get through a melt down

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The first few weeks of school can be stressful for those new to the building and especially for 1st year teachers.
What can you do as a leader?
LISTEN LISTEN & listen
Validate
Tell your own story
Find & offer support

One afternoon I was sitting at my round table near the door of my new office. It's cramped quarters for me in my 15 years of administrative "stuff" I have accumulated, but this new office location turned out to prompt a critical conversation with a new teacher one Friday afternoon.  I wasn't use to being directly on a hallway, I had always had an outer office where foot traffic of the teachers was limited. That afternoon I heard the clip-clop of what I could tell was from some cute sandals and I looked up to see who it was.  It was one of our New Crew teachers who was not only new to the building but she is a 2nd career older teacher in her very first year of teaching.  As she waled by, I called her name. I simply wanted to see how her first 2 weeks of school went. As she returned to my door, tears welled up in her eyes. I quickly invited her in and kicked the door closed to protect her from prying eyes. She was straight up ready to quit! The frightening thing to me as an administrator was that I knew how had it was, still having 2 math positions unfilled at the end of week 2, and I also knew she could afford to quit and not come back the following week.
Through the years I have learned how to set up a go-to-space to support teachers. This has become my round table in my office. When I first became an administrator I hated having a table in my office after the first few years because it became a resting place for my "stacks". Now it is a place where I keep go-to documents & books to support teachers when I have conversations with them. That afternoon I pulled out Teach Like a Champion. The teacher had purchased in over the summer in hopes of reading it to influence her teaching but she had not found the time.
First and foremost, I listened to her concerns and troubles in the classroom. I could also feel some guilt she was experiencing from her family. She has 2 teen aged daughters who for the very first time were dealing with their mom not being home when they got there. Her phone was constantly going off from one of her daughters trying to get permission to spend the weekend with a friend. She repeated thighs she had heard - if you lose them (meaning her students) in the first few weeks of school, you can never get them back. After I listened I sprang in to action. We reviewed a few chapters in Teach Like a Champion and I assigned her some reading over the weekend. We reviewed some work we started at new teacher orientation with Harry Wong's book on Discipline (insert reference & title). On the way home that afternoon I called our AP who works with new teachers. She committed to meeting with the teacher Monday morning to review establishing procedures with her students when you feel like you have lost them. In fact, she committed to spending the day with the teacher co-teach and model when needed. After I spoke with her I sent the teacher a text, It said, "I spoke with Kathy- she will be there to support 1st thing Monday morning. Get your Dojo set up and be ready to roll with that next week. You can do this!!!" Shortly there after she replied, "Thank you! Feeling some relief already!"
Sometimes the simple act of listening and then figuring out how to support a teach is what is needed to help a 1st year teacher know that she is not alone.

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Talking About Teaching:
Professional Conversations to
Promote Teacher Learning 

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Talking About Teaching:
Professional Conversations to
Promote Teacher Learning 

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https://www.nesacenter.org/uploaded/conferences/FLC/2010/spkr_handouts/Danielson/TalkingAboutTeaching.pdf

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Conversations and learning happens on a moment by moment basis in our schools and they often occur without even thinking about how they mold and change our daily practice as an educator.

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different types of conversations that  inform instruction

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different types of conversations that  inform instruction

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formal
informal
on-line forums
positive impact
negative impact
collegial conversations

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Making this a Practitioners Guide that will be used

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Making this a Practitioners Guide that will be used

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short usable story like conversations

pictures
graphics
eye catching titles