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Society's pressures have greatly impacted the characters from both the awakening and EINTY.

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End the discussion with some volume gusto--

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End the discussion with some volume gusto--

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I believe big part of the discussion had been that circumstances reflect society's expectations and that those expectations can create pressure and push someone to act impulsively

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With the time remaining, be sure to review what has been discussed, synthesizing the ideas and bringing it back to the inquiry question. Ms. Rutigliano

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With the time remaining, be sure to review what has been discussed, synthesizing the ideas and bringing it back to the inquiry question. Ms. Rutigliano

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I feel like we saw what happened when Marilyn left, James was not fully capable of taking care of the kids. He also lost his wife and had to comes to terms with that and wasn't really taking great care of the kids. He made them peanut butter and jelly every night. I don't think or believe he could have parented by himself.

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but the reader got a little sight into what life was like for james and the kids when marilyn left and it was awful. they didn't eat real food and everyone was sad all the time and james was even less attentive than usual. so, i don't think life would've been better without their mother

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Also, we have to take into consideration the different time periods. Mothers had different "roles" and expectation from society in the books.

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I'm just saying that I see where Marilyn is coming from

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they did the best they could. edna did what she thought was best for her family at the time, although in the grand scheme of things it was selfish of her. just like marilyn decided to come back and do what was "right". she gave up everything for her family and she did the best that she could do when she came back

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Is the common thread of regret and insecurities to conform to social pressures the main drive that creates human complexity as people try to balance out who they are with who society wants them to be?

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parents know whats "best"

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but they are just children

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Based on what Allison said i believe that children should have the choice to plan their lives. Parents can help kids, but it should be up to children to make important life decisions.

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i feel like it was more that she was white not beautiful

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also connecting text to what i just said, i forgot which page it was on, but there was a section in the book which stated that marilyn got lydia medical textbooks and science books for christmas every year only emphasizing the fact that she didn't have the chance to be herself from a young age

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Based on what jenna just said about her parents planning everything out, do you think it is the job of your parents to show you one path in life or show you different options and possibilities to help you decide what you want to do with your life?

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imagine being a 16 year old girl when your parets have already planned out your whole life for you based off of everything they never got to do... i'm sure she felt regret from the things that she never got to do that SHE wanted to do. she didn't get to be lydia.

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In Everything I Never Told You, one of the biggest regrets was when James was having an affair with Louisa, regretting ever marrying his wife, Marilyn.

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I feel like Edna killed herself because she did find herself and what she truly wanted but she also knew that realistically that wasn't possible because of the times she lived in and her family.

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but by killing herself, she finally set herself free from everything she knew that she couldn't have due to the time period and societal standards

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For Marilyn, she was on track to succeed and james sort of sprung out from under her.  Once she realized she was in too deep she was conflicted by the urge to pursue her own career and be there for her children.  This dissonance led her to leave in some ways to escape this moral dilemma, even though it was selfish.

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throughout the entire book, lydia's parents and siblings go back and reflect on points in time where they reflect on what they SHOULD HAVE known about their daughter/sister. even as early as page 4, marilyn reflects on how secretive her daughter was from a young age which only continued on with the pressures her parents continued to put on her

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Be sure to connect your analysis to human complexity; in addition, be sure to create balance between the two texts.

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In response to Justin's question about regret, regret is one of the forces that creates human complexity. It shows the weakness and insecurities of humans as the continue to wonder upon what else they could have done. This mentality leads to changes in behavior. "You loved so hard and hoped so much and then ended up with nothing," pg 246 EINTY. This regret is what caused Marilyn to put pressures on Lydia.

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Going off Justin's question, there is underlying regret in Lydia for never standing up for herself and being who she wants to be (and not what her parents want her to be). This can be seen in the scene at the pond when Lydia wants to restart her life.

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I agree with Sasha. A main theme in all of their lives in EINTY is regret and guilt and embarrassment of their own lives and decisions. Even Jack.

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Adding to what Sophie was talking about, Lydia had blue eyes which made her stand out.

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Lydia was impressionable, Nath was not. Hannah was more or less irrelevant to James and Marilyn because she was young.

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I think as Marilyn's oldest daughter, Lydia was Marilyn's first opportunity for her to see her former dreams come true. Marilyn's experience with her mother polarized her feelings that she had to pursue a career along with being a mother and once that became difficult, putting it on Lydia was the only way she could fulfill these desires.

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If Lydia hadn't gone into the lake, what would have been her escape from her circumstance?

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In response to Sasha's question,  I think Edna wouldn't have changed under different circumstances because of the independence Edna had at the beach and her feelings for Robert wouldn't have stirred the emotions that led Edna to become independent and "awaken".

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In response to Sasha's question, would Edna still change if the circumstances were different, I think that Edna would still have to discover the feminist within herself, for sociatlal pressures would force her to rediscover herself.

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When would you say these characters had changed to follow these norms

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I like some of the questions that are coming from Sasha. This is helping to move the conversation along in a healthy way.