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Seems like everyone is so fascinated in responding, how about....

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Seems like everyone is so fascinated in responding, how about....

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Let's put it this way, we all know about the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I would consider self-actualisation to be the ultimate goal of life - to self-actualise. In this case Nozick's Experience Machine doesn't contribute to that as Crystal has stated about challenges, I also agree that challenges help to shape ones' personality and uniqueness, with that we know our limit, and with that we leave our trace on this world. But without challenges, life is but a program, which fades out bit by bit throughout the age. Some people may prefer to have painless life, but I would rather have a life filled with challenges, where to me challenges are also source of energy to push you forward.
I agree with Angel's view on the innate curiosity of human being, as ancestors proceeds through all those challenges, we came along with the inventions we enjoy today, and yet people is still dreaming about the future, where it is unpredictable. However, future is unpredictable only if people continues their way forward.

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In the experience machine, it seemed to us that the machine can 'function' our lives in the ways we want them to be, however, life has limits. If life does not have any limits, why would we make decisions, why would we prioritize our to-dos every day? We treasure every opportunity to grow, we give thanks to what we have at the moment, without limits, people should not call it a 'real life'.

Siu Chi Ying

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Pain in Life (response to forum chair Hay)

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Pain in Life (response to forum chair Hay)

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Hay provided another perspective to the situation. What would life be without pain? People may then lost their intrinsic value of cherishing what they have now, that everything has no cost, their lives would be very dull and colorless. Most of all, people would then take things for granted, what will then be the meaning of life?

Siu Chi Ying

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The meaning of life (response to Crystal)

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The meaning of life (response to Crystal)

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I agree with Crystal that only considering subjective experiences in Happiness is rather limited. If I am one of the participants of the Experience Machine, I would decide to go back to the real world, even if I enjoyed the fake experience and obtained 'pleasure' in it, because how realistic it might have seemed, its value will never be close to the actual reality, and never contributing to my true 'Happiness'. In fact, mankind cannot be happy by just accepting things as how they are shown to them, where they can only find true happiness when they are in touch of the authentic truth. That is why people will feel happy and grateful afterwards, when they find out the truth that their partner cheated on them, even if they may feel sadness in the short term, as they rather not prefer to be fed with lies for their entire life. That is why people are so engaged in Scientific Discovery and Astronomy, sending spacecraft outside Space and our Galaxy just to know more about the Universe, rather accepting that Earth is the only planet and that they are the only existence (even if not knowing how many galaxies there are most probably will not affect their life on Earth).

By Angel Li Huiping

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Problems to social development and the overall-well being of the society (response to Siu Chi Ying)

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Problems to social development and the overall-well being of the society (response to Siu Chi Ying)

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I agree to Jenny's point that we shall gain full happiness by full experience. In the Utilitarian point of view, total happiness of the society shall be maximized. However in the case of the experience machine, although we may program what we think can maximize our total happiness, we do not really know if that is truely beneficial to ourself. There are so many uncertainty and possibilities in the real world that we may not be able to imagine at our current state with the limited knowledge we have, not to say 'program' them. There will be not be contribution or further development of the society. Not in their states of mind (personal growth) or real discovery/ invention in the reality.Thus, the total happiness may not be maximized by the machine.

By Angel Li Huiping

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Distancing oneself with the experience machine 

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Distancing oneself with the experience machine 

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While the experience machine seemed to be flawless, that oneself can choose what life he wants to pursue and how is he going to achieve what he wants, the results from participating in the experience machine are fearful that the world will then be intrigued into the ‘unrealistic reality’, in which the basic value of living are then taken away.

I generally agree with the forum chair about the true meanings of life - to understand ‘how’ and ‘what’ are we shaped in different situations throughout our lives. These are believed to be some of the reasons some people do not think going into the experience machine is acceptable. While the machine seemingly provides participants with positive and favourable sensations, they are all ‘manmade’ experiences which are pre-designed and functioned in a specific way which has no alternative once the programme is set. Human beings are said to be more flexible as we do make changes when we faces difficulties or when we knew that working in another way could benefit us. However, with the machine, one cannot function as a ‘proper human’ who has his own views and the ability to make positive changes to his own life. Indeed, the machine distances human from the reality and negatively affect the experience people are gaining, as Nozick mentioned, ‘there is no actual contact with any deeper reality, though the experience of it can be simulated’, what we are going to experience are always limited and unreal in the machine.

‘People come to our lives with a reason’, this saying always pops up when I was reading the journal. In my opinion, subjective experience is crucially important in the determination of a person’s level of happiness. People experience ups and downs in different walks of their lives. While Hedonism suggests that ‘pleasure is the good’ where something bad will not do any good to one’s well-being, Nozick is right to fight against Hedonism that negative consequences from our experience also contribute to the well-being of oneself. For instance, when we did poorly in an examination which is considered as a bad experience, we learn from the negative experience that one needs to work even harder to achieve better results. This also shapes us into the person we want to be and the personality that oneself uphold. We need to experience fully and engage in the whole experience in our own in order to gain the utmost of an experience, which contributes to our total happiness.

Siu Chi Ying Jenny

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Thank you for your reflective question. You have asked about why we do not prefer a life without pain and adapt the experience machine. For me, I think using this machine seems like a way to escape from the reality. We all know real life have much more difficulties and obstacles. We also cannot avoid them. However, we could not deny the values of them. Every challenges we face actually is a risky chance, we may learn and inspire from this experience or we defeat and lose everything. In my opinion, life without pain cannot really be counted as life. We would be ignorant to the world and indulge in so call experiences from the past or ancestors. We would not be curious to the world and the times we are having. We would not improve or evolve unless we face the reality and stop addicting to those prepared experiences by the machine.

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Thank you Hay for raising such in-depth question. In Hay's point of view, the Experience Machine proposed by Nozick is a way to evade pain which the utilitarianism believes it is the ultimate goal of human. I think the utilitarian's idea only provide us an desirable lifestyle. However, it does not help us to develop our own values/ meanings of life.

As Angel said, the values of knowledge and truth are beyond simple pleasure. Since the separation from the reality, the Experience Machine is disconnected to the actual world and therefore, the "knowledge" and "truth" presented in the machine are artificial. It might affect the respondent's perception about the real world.

And I would like to talk about the value of unpleasant experience in our real life. It is impossible that someone likes to face unpleasant experience as it will generate negative emotion on oneself. On the other hand, the unpleasant experience could trigger to know better about ourselves and how can we increase the level of happiness. Take examination as an example. If we fail in examination, we will feel upset. But the result gives an opportunity for us to know about our weakness. In order to prevent another failure, we would study hard and do more exercises. These actions could minimize the percentage of getting low marks in exam. The process of developing our own values through unpleasant experience is precious and no other experience could replace it.

Some skeptics might argue that unpleasant experience could be "created" in the Experience Machine. If the unpleasant experience is important on human, it could be set on different time spot. But I would say the experience is predictable. One restriction of the Experience Machine is that respondents are passive in role. They have the experience which is made by others. There is a sequence and their actions are planned (even though they are not realized). They could not develop their own values actively. The experience and "reaction" is created based on others belief, but not their own. Thus, people who plug into the machine does not reach the feeling of well-being. Instead, they are "pretend" to be happy.

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I have the same idea with the forum chair. I think subjective experience is important in the determination of people's level of happiness. As mentioned by the chair group, level of happiness is distinctive because each person has different attitudes and circumstances towards the issue. Even for the same incident happens (e.g. using the experience machine), different person has different degree of impact or effect. Understanding other's view and feelings always be difficult for us, not only because we do not sympathize them, but also because feelings are subjective and personal.

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I generally agree with the chair group's opinion. I think experience machine helps us to have a reflection about human-being.  I also think that self-being is much more important than the experience we receive. Though experience is essential to us, how it contributes to ourselves is the main meaning for experience.

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According to the chair group's response to question 1, they mentioned "Experience machine is just a stimulation for people to believe that you are living in the reality." I am afraid that I do not agree at all. I think experience machine is far more than only a stimulation, it could be an option for how human lives. Time flies and human grows whether we choose using the experience machine or pursing real life experience. It could be considered as a way to live.

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In general, I agree with Angel and Crystal, that there is something beyond pleasure in life which partly is truth and reality. I think the Nozick's experience machine is unresistably tempting by means of the picture it gives out and also by the Utilitarian theory that the maximum happiness is the ultimate aim. However, truth and reality carries a unique and precious value that experience machine cannot provide. The experience machine gives you imaginary happiness and incidents, which however, cannot replace the things that happens in real world, where people will chase about the meaning of life that is more than mere happiness.

However, other than irreplacable values of truth that Nozick's experiment machine cannot provides, what other factors from your point of view why should we unplug ourselves from ever-ending happiness and chase about suffering and pain that life gives out? I would say that this machine is a resolve for life that evades pain, and such machine will be best buy in every single country if its coming out. Imagine a life without pain?

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Knowledge and Truth to reality as a greater value than Simply Pleasure

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Knowledge and Truth to reality as a greater value than Simply Pleasure

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I suggest watching the YouTube video below, as it provided me a clearer picture about the Hedonists' believe, that Pleasure shall be maximized and Pain shall be minimized in life, and that the example of Nozick Experience machine is made to challenge this idea.

I agree with the chair group's interpretation on Nozick's intention on the Experience Machine, that people are more concerned about 'what they are' as in their personal development in real life rather than 'how time is spent' as in the virtual reality that the Experience Machine provides.

By Angel Li Huiping

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Would you opt for a life with no pain? - Hayley Levitt and Bethany Rickwald

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Subjective experience is not the only determination of a person's level of happiness.

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Subjective experience is not the only determination of a person's level of happiness.

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The chair group said that subjective experience completely determined person's level of happiness. But I think it is too narrow and single-minded.
In Nozick Experience Machine, people could choose to plug into a machine which provides desirable experience to the participants. If subjective experience is the only measurement to our well-being. Then, there is no reason to refuse the experiment. However, there is still people not willing to participate. It seems that besides subjective experience, there are other factors which also affect person's level of happiness.

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Chair Group Answer                                                                   1. An experience machine is used to stimulate one's brain and provide different life's experience for one while one just need to lie in a tank with electrodes attaching to one's brain. With the experience machine, one could encounter different matters and events which match to one's own interest and preference. Experience Machine is just a stimulation for people to believe that you are living in the reality.                                                                                                                                                                            2. Nozick tried to point out that rather than just to do what we want to do,  how we develop ourselves and what are we in the process are more important. There's a line in the passage: 'Why should we be concerned only with how our time is filled, but not with what we are?'. It showed that what experience we had is not the matter instead what we have gained from the experience and how they contribute to our self-being.                                                                                                                                         3. In our point of view, the subjective experience completely determines the level of happiness of one. As we live based on the experience we obtained from everyday life, who we are was constructed by what we have gone through in our lives as well as how we dealt with the events. However, what we have to encounter may not be controlled by ourselves and they may bring various impacts to our lives. So whether the matter is positive or negative to us is determined by our own attitude. When one actively overcomes some difficulties, that may result in a positive, happy experience for him/her. Therefore, I believe the subjective experience determines the level of happiness of one.

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Chair Group Answer                                                                   1. An experience machine is used to stimulate one's brain and provide different life's experience for one while one just need to lie in a tank with electrodes attaching to one's brain. With the experience machine, one could encounter different matters and events which match to one's own interest and preference. Experience Machine is just a stimulation for people to believe that you are living in the reality.                                                                                                                                                                            2. Nozick tried to point out that rather than just to do what we want to do,  how we develop ourselves and what are we in the process are more important. There's a line in the passage: 'Why should we be concerned only with how our time is filled, but not with what we are?'. It showed that what experience we had is not the matter instead what we have gained from the experience and how they contribute to our self-being.                                                                                                                                         3. In our point of view, the subjective experience completely determines the level of happiness of one. As we live based on the experience we obtained from everyday life, who we are was constructed by what we have gone through in our lives as well as how we dealt with the events. However, what we have to encounter may not be controlled by ourselves and they may bring various impacts to our lives. So whether the matter is positive or negative to us is determined by our own attitude. When one actively overcomes some difficulties, that may result in a positive, happy experience for him/her. Therefore, I believe the subjective experience determines the level of happiness of one.