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I agree with Phoebe, also many enlightenment thinkers were European so they may not have had as much influence elsewhere

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Good Job Team!!! #BlythewoodBattleBeatles #GoBeatles

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I kind of agree with what Ben is saying. I remember that the Crash Course videos mentioned that some Enlightenment thinkers thought the enlightenment would bring an end to religion, that it was "superstitious".

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I feel like what megan said all of them have similarities with enlightment

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Good question posed by Ben

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I kind diagree .. with victoria I feel the reaoning was different but they still were both revolting and going agasint a higher power

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good job christian with bringing victoria more in the conversation

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Religiously

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@Phoebe I think its because it became such a big part of Mexican culture, as the Spanish had such a big influence on that particular area, but if that's the case then I'm not so sure about why the Spanish didn't have that big of an impact in other places, like they did in Mexico

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Why were enlightenment ideas more prominent in revolutions like the French instead of the Mexican?

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sadie i agree bro

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Revolutions tended to be fights against the government/oppressors, and religion was often tied into that. However, that wasn't the case in Mexico because they didn't view their religion as directly tied to their oppressors; they fought WITH religion instead of against it

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How do enlightenment ideals play into the similarities of the revolutions?

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compare the role of catholicism in french rev and religion in the mexican revolution

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They should also mention how when the Mexican Revolution was heavily influenced by Religion, in France, the exact opposite was occurring where there was kind of a move away from church values.

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I think it's weird that religion remained so strong in the forefront of the Mexican Revolution considering that it could be considered a symbol of European colonization.

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I agree with Christian, religion in the Mexican Revolution played a more positive role overall

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I think that this is so because in other countries since the government was within the state they were interconnected with the church while in Mexico the government was overseas so they weren't as connected with the church.

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The painting (The Mural of Father Hidalgo) shows that religious figures led the Mexican revolution.

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I agree with Megan, as well. "All men" didn't necessarily include those who were considered slaves

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So Victoria, are you saying that since the matter was so pressing the Haitians took action immediately while what happens after the revolution is a "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" type of thing

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@Sadie, That sums it up really nicely, it was just kinda a lose lose scenario because the economy was just so based on slavery.

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I agree with Megan

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If slavery was abolished earlier in NA the economy would probably have been shambles too but it was inevitable and human rights really matter more

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does not answer how these are similar or different

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yes this is kinda off topic

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@Phoebe, I agree, I wasn't sure if they had covered that

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i agree with victoria, they would not think of the future when they are so driven to abolish slavery

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I feel like they SOO off topic :/

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@ David I think that the consequences of the revolutions should be considered because the wording of the question is so open ended.

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I was thinking that too Phoebe

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(Document 10 was the Haitian Constitution of 1801)

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@David I would assume so

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I agree with Phoebe

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Document 10 only includes SOME of the articles, not ALL. Without extra research we can't be sure what the entirety of the document included.

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go offfff

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Does after the revolution come into play as similarities and differences?

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oooof ^

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OOP

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good point

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Haiti wouldn't even need a revolution or to rebuild their economy if European countries hadn't wrecked it in the first place

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wouldnt that be after the revolution though?

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because their overarching goal was to abolish slavery

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Yeah I definitely agree, because I don't necessarily think they were thinking about what would happen to the country after the revolution

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That was I was thinking Xaveon

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^^I think the main goal was more socially

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sister adam lmao

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I think that the most different were the Mexican Revolution and the French Revolution because in Mexico the Catholic church united people as seen in document 13 with Father Hidalgo united the mestizos and the Natives while the Catholic Church during the French Revolution divided the people.

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i love that question sister adam good job loved that

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The revolution sort of wrecked the economy

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I agree economically

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That question brings up a lot of perspectives and hypotheticals, it's really good.

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wasn't the best outcome for the country as a whole

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I agree with David, economically....

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I agree, it is a major improvement, I just don't see it as a complete success economically.

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shook

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really good question

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I have to disagree with Christian...

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The end result wasn't perfect or even super good, even free people in Haiti had to work on plantations, but the point is they were free; they weren't forced to do anything and their families were kept together. Their goal was to free slaves and that's what they did, even though some things like economy were damaged as a result.

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I agree with david and sadie in a way? because haiti was in debt and needed a way to make money quick for their economy, but they should not be placed to work on a plantation against their will once again, that is ethically and morally wrong and goes completely against enlightenment rights

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Good points being made, nonetheless..

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Have they even used the documents?

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And which documents are being used

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I believe that Haiti's revolution was successful in that it established a precedent of change, specifically about slavery in a world where that was not supported.

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Only the french revolution was

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I disagree Christian the Haitian revolution wasnt talking about representation in government

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Thank You Jason

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I think we also need to discuss differences

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I agree with what Meagan and Jason because in the end Haiti did accomplish their goal even though they didn't know how to go about their independence. Jason is right as well because it was a lose lose in a way. They abolished slavery but at the end of the day they remained in a similar situation. Also, I think the fact that they were successful so early hurt them because other countries refused to see Haiti as a legit independent state as African were seen as lesser peoples.

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@David Yes Haiti was still in debt, but don't human rights matter a whole lot more? They accomplished what they wanted to, to abolish slavery. I agree with Jordan, freedom mattered a lot more than their economy. Also, slaves in Haiti did not benefit AT ALL from their flourishing economy. Only free white men benefited from that.

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^^Truth

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they still had to work on the plantations, even though they did not want to

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I feel like they are straying a little too far from the topic

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yay :)

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They still had to work on the same plantations they were enslaved on

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yessuh zhaire

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I agree with phoebe

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Yes, you're right Zhaire

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Agreed ^

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I disagree with Megan, yes the goal was to abolish slavery, but how can you say its successful when people are still starting back where you started ?

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facts^^

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This seems like a debate on whether success is determined by morality or economy.

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shambles

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WHich was to abolish slavery

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The Haitian revolution was very revolutionary and overall successful in its ultimate goal (like Megan said).

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Yeah i agree that the haitian and NA revolutions were the most different because the NA rev was driven by the unfair taxes placed on them by the british as the haitian rev was driven by the ongoing slavery of going back and forth of being free then not being free any longer.

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I agree with David. I think comparing Latin American and Haitian Revolutions provides a strong argument.

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I diagree with Jamia, yes it is a job but now you have to think that they were asked to be on these plantations again it was kinda like they HAD to, becuase they had to save Haitians economy was to get back on that plantation

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I agree Haiti changed a lot, but there were still in a lot of debt. Just saying

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I agree the Haitian revolution was the most revolutionary- in the end, they accomplished a ton and completely changed their society. Also when slaves were freed, slave owners couldn't LITERALLY sell their children- it was a major positive change

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At the same time though they were still struggling economically. They got freedom, but they had no way of making money and they were still struggling because no one wanted to trade with them.

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I feel like part of deciding which are similar/different, they must provide reasons as to why they aren't considering the other revolutions in their discussion. Basically, what about the Haitian and South American Revolutions makes them not similar to either the NA revolution and the French Revolution?

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I agree with Sadie and Megan that NA and Haitian Revolutions were the most different in that Haiti had the motivation of racial tension and NA had the motivation of taxation and representation, ignoring the intersection of gender and race equality.

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Christian, where do you stand in this discussion?

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I agree, the most different were the North American and Haitian revolutions. The Haitian revolution was caused by unfair treatment of slaves (Doc 9, Doc 10), while the North American revolution was caused by British taxation without representation (Doc 1, Doc 2, etc).