# data[].attributes.body
i would never go away from the church because i’ve seen people that have left the church and they are not as happy and peaceful

# data[].attributes.body
There is a little chance I would leave the church. I haven't really had any experience feeling the holy Ghost. I don't really know any stores with the scriptures.

# data[].attributes.headline
But we can prevent our youth from being infected by them. Knowledge and a testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ are like a vaccine. We can inoculate them. Inoculate: In—"to be within" and oculate means "eye to see." We place an eye within them—the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost. Elder Boyd K. Packer - MormonThink

# data[].attributes.subject
But we can prevent our youth from being infected by them. Knowledge and a testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ are like a vaccine. We can inoculate them. Inoculate: In—"to be within" and oculate means "eye to see." We place an eye within them—the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost. Elder Boyd K. Packer - MormonThink

# data[].attributes.attachment_link.readable_text
[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome, brothers and sisters, to this worldwide gathering of the Church Educational System. My name is Bert Whimpey, and I serve as an associate administrator of Seminaries and Institutes of Religion. We are grateful to be joined by Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We also recognize Elder Paul V. Johnson, General Authority Seventy and commissioner of the Church Educational System, and his wife, Jill. We welcome Sister Bonnie H. Cordon, Young Women General President, who serves as a member of the Church Board of Education, as well as other representatives from general Church organizations, administrators of the Commissioner's Office, CES institutions of higher education, Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, and their spouses. We will begin our meeting with a musical number, "Beautiful Savior," sung by a men's double quartet. We appreciate the assistance of Daniel K. Ritchie, a member of Training Services, in organizing this number and Diane Thomas, a member of Curriculum Services, who will accompany them. Gregory W. Tulane, a member of Human Resources, will then offer the invocation.

[Musical Number: "Beautiful Savior"] Our kind Father in Heaven, we are grateful for the opportunity we have to come together as the Church Educational System. We are grateful for our leaders and those who have been called to teach us and to guide us and direct us. We are grateful for Elder Bednar and Elder Johnson being with us tonight and for the things that we'll learn from them and from Brother Webb. Father, we are grateful for the gospel of Jesus Christ. We are grateful for our testimonies. We are grateful for the power of the Atonement. We pray that Thy Spirit will be here in abundance, that we will learn and be edified by the Holy Ghost. We again express our love and appreciation for the gift of Thy Son, and we say this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

We will be pleased to hear first from Elder Paul V. Johnson. Elder Johnson serves as a General Authority Seventy and as the commissioner of the Church Educational System. As a General Authority Seventy, he has served as Europe Area President and First Counselor in the Chile Area Presidency. Elder Johnson is married to Jill Washburn, and they are the parents of nine children. After Elder Johnson's remarks, he will introduce Elder David A. Bednar. Elder Bednar will be participating in a discussion facilitated by Brother Chad H. Webb, administrator of Seminaries and Institutes of Religion. At the conclusion of the discussion, Jessica Myler, a seminary instructor in the Utah Salt Lake Area will offer the benediction. Elder Johnson.

We are very grateful to be with you tonight. Jill and I spent four years on assignment with the wonderful people of Europe, and we were very surprised and pleased when President Nelson asked us to return to CES. It feels like coming home to have close contact with you who dedicate so much effort and heart in helping young people learn and live the gospel of Jesus Christ. Observing the twists and turns in our own and others' journeys through life, I have thought about the journey we are on toward eternal life. For those of us who accept Jesus Christ and His Atonement, the pattern of our lives is similar. We exercise faith in the Savior and follow Him despite challenges. We repent of our sins, receive necessary ordinances, and endure to the end. But the details of each life are very different, and the challenges we face vary from individual to individual. Think of the journey of Lehi's family to the promised land. Their unique journey can yield some insights into our own journeys. They knew they were headed to a promised land, but they didn't know everything about either the destination or the exact path to get there. They faced serious challenges along the way. Even Nephi, who didn't murmur, explained that they "had suffered many afflictions and much difficulty, yea, even so much that we cannot write them all."1 They had guidance along the way. In fact, Lehi was told in the night that "on the morrow he should take his journey into the wilderness."2 The next morning he found the Liahona at his tent door that provided divine direction on their journey. But having the Liahona didn't change the geography between them and their promised land. It didn't shrink the Arabian Peninsula nor the seas they needed to cross. They still had to move forward in the face of the challenges inherent to their epic journey. But the Liahona did guide them "in the more fertile parts of the wilderness,"3 and if they weren't slothful, it helped them take a direct course.4 Laman and Lemuel murmured because of the difficulties they faced on the journey. Some of those difficulties were of their own making. Yet, even when they were following direction and traveling properly, they still faced meals of raw meat and days of a blazing desert sun. Similar to their experience, sometimes people think they will not face challenges. If they are doing what is right, everything will be easy. That is just not the case. It does mean that we can be strengthened and guided, but not that we won't face challenges. Although they moved as a group they were also each on an individual journey. Despite their journey bringing them to the same physical location, their individual eternal trajectory varied widely and was determined by their personal decisions and actions along the way. We each have an individual and individualized journey through this life, but we also share parts of that journey with others. For example, we are on a journey together in our efforts in seminary and institutes and Church education. We have an objective-we know generally where we are headed, but we don't know all the obstacles or every detail of the route to get there. Each of us chooses how we will travel with the group. We can murmur. We can rejoice. We can be thankful even in the midst of challenges. For some, changes in Church policy or procedure can be challenging. I was very pleased to see how S & I is responding to the inspired changes emphasizing home-centered and Church-supported gospel learning. We will, and do, face challenges. By following the Lord's guidance we can overcome and learn from these challenges. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, "It was clearly evident that the Lord gave us power in proportion to the work to be done, and strength according to the race set before us, and grace and help as our needs required."5 We receive guidance to help us take the most direct route and travel through the more fertile parts of the wilderness in our journey. We have guidance from prophets. I know we are led by prophets, seers, and revelators. What a blessing! We are directed by the Church Board of Education, and we also have Brother Webb, his team, and other inspired leaders. In addition, each of us is eligible for personal guidance as we face specific issues in our individual assignments. Both the Church Board of Education and the executive committee of that Board meet monthly. In these meetings we receive direction and counsel. We also have the blessing of a yearly "Evening with a General Authority," and over the years we have received very helpful and focused guidance to help us on our journey-as an organization and individually. I pray that we may be open to guidance and direction from the Lord. I know that He lives and will help and guide us. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen. We now have a chance to spend some time with Elder David A. Bednar, who is a member of the Board of Education and the executive committee of the Board. His leadership has been invaluable to the Church Educational System. He began attending Board meetings over 20 years ago as the president of Ricks College. He led a major effort to transition from Ricks College to BYU-Idaho and navigated that journey with faith and great effort. Elder Bednar was ordained and set apart as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 7, 2004. Prior to his call to the Quorum of the Twelve, Elder Bednar was an educator and served as the president of BYU-Idaho. Sister Susan Bednar is a graduate of Brigham Young University. She and Elder Bednar have been married 44 years and are the parents of three sons. We will now join Chad Webb and Elder Bednar for their conversation.

We're very excited to be joined today by Elder Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Elder Bednar, thank you for being with us today. Thank you, Brother Webb. And we're grateful to all of you for joining us here in the audience, as well as all of you that are watching wherever you are, throughout the world. Thank you for being with us tonight. I'm sure you've noticed that this format is a little different than the traditional "Evening with a General Authority." A number of years ago, Elder Bednar reminded us that teaching is not telling, that it includes listening and observing and discerning. It includes certainly includes an invitation of the Holy Ghost to teach us. So in that spirit, we wanted this format to be a little different, to invite that type of experience and that type of interaction with you tonight. So we would invite you each to have a prayer in your heart to invite the Holy Ghost to teach us, and we're excited to learn together through this experience. So again, thank you. We'll just jump right in. We have a number of questions, and Elder Bednar will respond and maybe ask some questions and engage you in the conversation. So we wanted to start by asking you a little bit about personal revelation. President Nelson has taught us about the importance of personal revelation recently, and we wanted to ask you what you might add to that, what you would teach us about what you've learned as an Apostle and in your personal experience about receiving personal revelation. I think the first thought that comes to my mind is that we often make it hard on ourselves to receive personal revelation. By that, I mean a covenant promise is that as we honor our covenants, we may always have the Holy Ghost be our constant companion. But we talk about it and we treat it as if hearing the voice of the Lord through His Spirit is the rare event. And that just strikes me a little curious. It's like I have to follow these four steps. Everywhere we get checklists. We get formulas. Do these four things and the Holy Ghost is going to speak to you, and you're going to hear it. And I go, "Wait a minute. We shouldn't be trying to recognize it when it comes; we should be recognizing what happens that causes it to leave." It ought to be with us all of the time. Not every nanosecond. But if a person is doing his or her best, you don't have to be perfect. But if you and I are doing our best, and we're not committing serious transgression, then we can count on the Holy Ghost guiding us. So I think we sometimes start from a disadvantage in believing, "I have to gear up to recognize it," when it ought to be there all the time. Secondly, I think in the culture of the Church, especially in the western world, we seem to believe that the Holy Ghost is dramatic and big and sudden, when it's still and small and incremental over time and that you don't have to recognize that you are receiving revelation in the moment that you are receiving revelation. So, because we think it's got to be big, and I have to know it, we have all of these things that, I think, are just exactly the opposite of what really happens as we receive revelation. I think Nephi is the perfect example of this model. He went "not knowing beforehand the things [that he] should do."1 And what is striking to me about that experience is that he's writing this after it happens. So he has to look back and reflect on his experience. And I don't mean to use casual language, but in the vernacular of today I think he's saying, "I was absolutely clueless about how this was going to work." But he goes. He goes. And as he's going, he's being guided, but I'm not sure he knows that in every instant that he is pressing forward and going. Now, the reason that's at the very beginning of the Book of Mormon is so every one of us will read it 48*million times in our lives. It's before the Isaiah chapters. I think that may be intentional. So you get there, and you get stuck, and you go back, and you read that over and over and over and over. But we never make the connection that what happened to him is probably how it ought to be working for us. I find members of the Church who are terrified: "I'm going to make a mistake." Did Nephi make a mistake the first time when they drew lots? Didn't work out, but, boy, did he learn a lesson. And his family-didn't work out when they tried the gold and all their possessions, but they learned a lesson. So it doesn't have to be big, dramatic, quick, all at once, and it works every time. It's just probably the opposite of that. But somehow we've come to the conclusion- I think those assumptions get in our way. I think that's a really great response for us, in teaching young people especially. In conversations, I've heard you also refer to that being true when revelation comes through the leaders of the Church, for members of the Church, and the way we see that and respond to revelation from President Nelson and other leaders of the Church. Would you add anything in our understanding about revelation when it comes to responding to the revelation of those who lead? I'd be happy to. Again, many members of the Church are talking about how much revelation has come just since President Nelson became the President of the Church. And again, I hope none of this sounds sarcastic, but thank goodness. Because we didn't have much with President Monson, and we didn't have very much with President Hinckley. The things that are coming forth now have been worked on for years and decades. I think the perfect illustration for people of our age-maybe just old guys like me- President McKay in the 1950s is highlighting the importance of the family. In the 1950s, in the 1960s, TV programs are called Father Knows Best and Leave it to Beaver. They cannot be any more clean than this. So why in that era is President McKay emphasizing the family? Because you needed it for today, and it would be 70*years too late if you were starting today. So this is not new. In many instances, the revelation is not what to do; the revelation is when to do. President Hinckley, small temples. Everyone attributes small temples to President Gordon*B. Hinckley. He came home from his mission; he worked for the Church in the Missionary Department and in the Communication Department. David*O. McKay invites him to his office and says, "Brother Hinckley, we're going to build a temple in Europe, and we need to present temple ordinances in many different languages, even at the same time." They'd never encountered that challenge before. Gordon*B. Hinckley didn't do this by himself, but that was the beginning of exploring the use of audiovisual means of presenting temple ordinances. In the 1960s, as a member of the Twelve, he's in Asia. I've read minutes from the Quorum of the Twelve where Elder Gordon*B. Hinckley writes from Asia and says, "The methods that we use for temple ordinances in the large temples in Utah won't be appropriate for the-for what we need to do here." This is in the 1960s. In the 1970s he's a member of the First Presidency. With Spencer*W. Kimball the first small temples are built. Then he becomes the President of the Church, and we tell the story. He's in northern Mexico. He's concerned about the Saints there who don't have access to the temple. And on the napkin, in the back of the car as he's driving along, this is the revelation.

The revelation to President Hinckley was not the idea of a small temple: "We're going to have a hundred of them by the year 2000."2 It was the when, not the what. Thank you. I think that's really helpful for us as we teach young people about revelation and responding to revelation, and in our own lives as we learn to counsel together and work toward growing into revelation and into the answers that we need. So that's really helpful. If I could just make a suggestion-and that is that in Church education, we work very hard not to teach people that this is formulaic: do these three things. There are principles related to the receiving of revelation. For example, probably everyone in this setting, and everyone listening, has read President Packer's talk about the snow-white birds. There's a very important teaching about revelation in his introductory comments. I can't quote it, but he said, "As I was preparing for this message, to deliver this message, I had to do my preparation in very small snippets of time between other obligations." And he said, "One of the steps of my preparation was to come to this campus and walk around. And I went to the Maeser building at BYU and stood there-"because that was the venue where he was going to deliver the message. And he said, "Harold*B. Lee taught me that revelation is more readily recognized when you're in the place related to the need for the revelation." And then all he said was, "President Lee was right."3 Well what he's telling you is, if I'm delivering this message on this campus, there's value in being in the place, pondering and praying and seeking for help. Well, what he's telling you is this: If I'm delivering this message on this campus, then there's value in being in the place, pondering and praying and seeking for help. And that has huge implications for today in terms of ministering. Everybody thinks a text is enough. There are occasions where you need to be in the home and you need to look the people in the eyes, because you're going to receive impressions and inspiration in the home that you'll never get any other way. That's really great. It causes me to think of another implication, and that would be as teachers-as we prepare and we're praying for the students who are teaching. Maybe going over a role with their names in our minds, right? So it's not just preparing a lesson, but we're seeking inspiration for those that we're teaching and ministering to, so- Again, lots of times there will be a sudden stroke of inspiration, and you will have a name come to your mind, or you might even see a familiar face. I would suggest that when it comes suddenly that's exactly what the Prophet Joseph said: "Sudden strokes of [intelligence]."4 And those are quite remarkable. Thank you. That kind of leads me to another set of questions. Are we okay to move to another idea? No. I want to ask them a question. All right, perfect. So, help me know if any of that was confusing or needs additional clarification before we move on. What did you hear, and what was just said?

Please. Let me reach a little bit. Pass this back, please.

I guess I'm trying to understand exactly. It's not what to do; it's when to do. Every once in a while we will receive revelation on what to do as well. Is that-? Don't make it mutually exclusive; it's not one or the other. But many times what to do is pretty clear, but it's the timing and the when to do that we struggle with. So it's both, not one or the other. Okay. That's a great question. Is that clarifying? That help? Yes. Okay, let's pass it back over here, please.

Thank you. A little clarification. Maybe I misunderstood. The idea of receiving revelation, we don't want to have a prescriptive list. We want to be more principle-based, correct? But yet in the scriptures we see Joseph*F. Smith, we see Joseph Smith, we see Nephi read the scriptures, listen to the words of a prophet, read the scriptures, and receive revelation. So are those principles, or is that a pattern? I think you feast upon the word of God so you can hear the Lord's voice. So a principle? Yeah. Thank you. See, it's when we turn that into, "Do these three things, and this is what's going to happen." We have to wait upon the Lord. He delivers it; we don't demand it. So we have to be aware of and responsive to His timing, not our demands about timing.

So the way I understand it is that we should live our lives in such a way that we're always ready for the revelation whenever the Lord is ready to pour it out on us, so- Not ready for. See, that language suggests to me- Preparation. No. Well, whenever it comes. You're living in the revelation. Right, so we have a daily- Hold it! That phrase, I think, is significant. Instead of thinking, we cruise along: "Oh, I've got to stop what I'm doing now, and I have to get geared up to receive revelation." You're always in it. "That [we] may always have His Spirit to be with [us]."5 Now, there are people who will be extreme and think, "I have to*..." You know, about the can of beans at the grocery store. This does take a little common sense as well. But to think that somehow our daily life is divorced from that ongoing influence of the Spirit and that it only comes when we gear up somehow, according to the formula, I think gets in the way and messes us up. Excuse me, go ahead. Oh, I was just thinking- I think probably you gave the talk about having a constant communication with God and how we pray in the morning, and then we're constantly communicating with Him.6 Just as the way we can always love in our heart, we can always have a prayer in our heart. So it's not really just gearing up for that revelation, but we're always walking and being tutored by God all through our lives, throughout every day. Think of how Oliver Cowdery came to become Joseph Smith's scribe.

He hears about golden plates, he hears the story about Joseph Smith, and he has a desire to go meet him. Well, where did that come from? This is the sixth section of the Doctrine and Covenants. Let me quote this real quick.

I think, again, this is in the sixth section of the Doctrine and Covenants. Nephi is in chapter four of the Book of Mormon. I think there's a reason why they're at the beginning of these books. "If thou wilt do good, yea, and hold out faithful to the end, thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, which is the greatest of all the gifts of God; for there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation."7 I often say, "Just be a good boy, or be a good girl, and go." Well, that comes "if thou wilt do good." "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, blessed art thou"-it's talking to Oliver-for what thou hast done; for thou hast inquired of me, and behold, as often as thou hast inquired thou hast received instruction of my Spirit. If it had not been so, thou wouldst not have come to the place where thou art at this time. Behold, thou knowest that thou hast inquired of me and I did enlighten thy mind."8 Now the next sentence in this verse to me is the most compelling. Oliver was being inspired, and he had no idea that he was being inspired. He was receiving revelation, and he had no idea he was receiving revelation. So a revelation comes through Joseph to Oliver to tell him he had been inspired and was receiving revelation: "And now I tell thee these things that thou mayest known that thou hast been enlightened by the Spirit of truth."9 So that's what I mean about, "We're in it, not just stopping to try to get it." Thank you.

Same question. Is this confusing or is this helpful? I think the implications that I'm hearing from these principles, especially receiving revelation in the place that you are, speaks volumes to what we do in Church education to be where the students are. If we only think about our profession of being in the classroom, just teaching, we may miss the opportunity to be receiving revelation for our students so that we can teach to their needs. That means talking to priesthood leaders, it means calling home, it means going to a ball game, it means being with them-not just looking at a role, but looking in their eyes and learning their stories so that we can teach to them. And I think all of that is a part of our preparation so that when we are in the classroom, our teaching can be with greater power and greater authority that comes from the Holy Ghost. I think one of the greatest sources of insight that you have are the questions that your students will ask. Over a number of years I've had a practice of using my iPad. Now, I'm not recommending this; I'm just describing this, okay? And for example, just recently I was in a place, met with 1,700 young people on a Friday night. I gave them a phone number, and they then can anonymously text questions to my iPad. I did this in a devotional at BYU-Idaho. We had 15,000 students in the BYU-Idaho auditorium. We had people listening on the radio, and it was being live-streamed. And that night-let me make sure I don't embellish this-I got 14,000 questions. When you read those questions, it's one of the greatest learning experiences anybody can have who is working with young people. And I am of the opinion that we have no idea where they are. When you read those questions and they're anonymous, and they're really asking what they're troubled by and what they need help with. So that's the beginning is, how do we know what to say until we know where they are? That's a very important element in this, I think. Anything else? Yes, ma'am. Let me grab the microphone.

Just yesterday I listened to the talk by Elder Holland, "Cast Not Away Therefore [Thy] Confidence." And in it he spoke about Oliver Cowdery and how he missed the opportunity to translate. And Elder Holland said, he "missed the opportunity of a lifetime within the lifetime of the opportunity."10 And I thought about that when you said the when. So the confusing part to me is, if we know we need to do something, how can we ensure that we do it at the right timing? Because, for me, I have so many weaknesses, and I mess up-like how you spoke about Nephi, that he cast lots and then the gold. How do we know that we're doing it right? I think you will find my answer wholly unsatisfactory.

Nephi didn't mess up. It was a learning experience, "line upon line, precept upon precept."11 He was being prepared to go back, "not knowing beforehand the things which [he] should do."12 And I'm a really simpleminded person. If you're doing your best, you're consecrated, you're devoted, you're not going to mess somebody up. Heaven is in charge of this, not you, not me. So as a member of the Twelve, I have assignments all the time that I just cannot possibly do, but you just have to go. And as you do your best, you are enlarged; you're magnified. You won't consciously always know, "Oh, this is the right time." You just do your very best. I remember President Hinckley, when I was a younger man and I would ask him questions, and he would say, "Well, it all just works out." And I believed that, and I thought, "Come on, there's more than that." The older I get, the more I understand that's the only answer there is. God is not going to leave you hanging out there alone as you're trying to succor and nurture and minister to His children. So if you do your best, it will work out, and you'll learn lessons along the way. Now please help me know if that was lame or if that was helpful. It was heavenly. It was not. Thank you.

Anything else about this topic and what's not clear? To me, I think one of the most important questions- We'll get to this comment, but be thinking about this. So as we discuss this, what are you hearing that's not being said? Not said by people who are commenting, not said by me. What are you hearing that is not said? First to the brother who had your hand- So for the students, as I'm thinking how I'm going to teach that to a student-to be always in it and to have revelation a constant flow in their lives-and I'm thinking about what I just taught a couple of hours ago, and it's all wrong. And I'm trying to- Well, I'm glad we got here in time. But I just went through 1*Nephi*11, and teaching that process of revelation that Nephi is going through, and now I'm wanting to go back and teach it differently. But for a students' perspective of hearing that they need to constantly be in that mode of revelation, how do we teach that to students who feel inadequate and feel that that may be a daunting task for them? What do you think?

I feel that would be-personally for me-as a student, that's a daunting task for me. But my own thoughts turn to- As I draw closer to the Savior in all that I do and recognize and have faith in the Atonement, then I'm equal to that task and can be if you ask me to do it. Let me suggest something, and tell me what you think, okay? Instead of thinking, "what am I going to tell them?" the focus is on, "what would I ask them?" And not only, "what would I ask them?" but, "what would I invite them to do?" There could be some portion of the time devoted to a really honest discussion. This is intimidating for all of us. So help me know, what do you think? Given where you're at and how overwhelming that looks, where would you start? The very act of asking them that question is inviting them to act. And if that student will begin to give voice to some answer, that is an expression of faith in Christ. Faith is a principle of action and of power. As we act in accordance with the teachings of Christ, then we're blessed with His power. What all of us want is the power so we can act. That doesn't work. So our instinct ought to be not "what do I tell them?" but the question is "what can I invite them to do? What inspired question can I ask, which, if they are willing to respond, will begin to invite the Holy Ghost into that person's life?" That individual is inviting the Holy Ghost to answer the question. We can't, but He can. And our role is to make it safe to discuss those things and to invite them to act so that the Holy Ghost can teach. What is your response to that? That's wonderful. It's now- The task is, for me, to be prepared and to be in tune with the Spirit to ask the right question to help them understand that, yeah- See, and a part of what we always want to do in the western world is, "here is the formula for asking the right question." If you love the kids and you look at them and you listen to them, the questions are really very simple. So give them what you just heard: "What are you learning?" And each one of those observations then allows you to- That was talked about over here. You've got to know where they're at. You're learning a little more about where they're at. You're better able to aim appropriately in what you're asking and what you say. Great question. Thank you. I think one of the things that makes me the saddest is to find incredibly faithful members of the Church who have done all that you can do that is right and good, and they don't think they measure up because they don't have all these dramatic experiences that people talk about in fast and testimony meeting. And- In one setting, I talked about the fact that that's not normal. You're normal.

If you're just kind of plugging along, and, you know, sometimes you go down the wrong street and you turn around and come back out. That's how it's supposed to work. And if you're honoring your covenants and pressing forward, you're doing just fine, and you're normal. I had a sister, a member of the Church for 40-50 years, throw her arms around me and say, "Oh, I've just wondered if I can measure up." How can we have so many members of the Church beating themselves up with that? And it's because, I think, they started at the wrong place. "It's big, it's dramatic, it's all at once, everybody talks about that. That's what I see in the scriptures. That doesn't happen to me, so there's something wrong with me." No. You're normal. And when you point out that Saul was not converted by the light, and Alma the Younger was not converted by the angel. Alma the Younger didn't talk in public about the angel very often, like, never, except to his kids. He says, "I fasted. I prayed." It wasn't the angel that did it.13 Great question. Thank you. So what are you hearing that has not been said? Does that question make any sense to you? Hello? So what are you hearing? Yes, ma'am. Would you please pass that back?

I'm hearing that I should trust my connection with heaven and the relationship that I have with my Heavenly Father and my Savior and to trust that they're guiding me in my choices and in my interactions with people, in my family, in my callings, in my responsibilities that I have. YES. SEE THAT TRUST: "Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; [and] thy confidence [shall] wax strong in the presence of God."14 Not confidence in you, confidence in Them, to get done what none of us can do. Great observation. Anybody else? Can I be a participant? Well, of course. And answer a question for me? Yep. I think this is really helpful. And I was thinking of two things. One, quickly, is Moroni*7, right? "That which persuades us to do good, to believe in Christ, is of God." We might be someday surprised by the thoughts that we thought were ours that really were the Holy Ghost. It's just as we try to do good, as you say, it's- Our thoughts will be guided, and our desires will be guided by the Holy Ghost. The other thought I think is really interesting, as I've been thinking about President Nelson's talk on revelation and how he said, "Pour out your hearts, speak with Heavenly Father, be honest with Him. And then listen! Write down the impressions that come, and act on them." And then he said, "If you will do it day after day, week after week, month after month, you will 'grow into the principle of revelation' (Teachings: Joseph Smith,*132)."15 For me, personally, most of the inspiration that has come in my life did not come while I was praying, right? I pray, I ponder, I try to write down impressions that come, but as you go to work, then the inspiration comes. During the lesson, the inspiration comes. When you're singing a hymn or talking to somebody or in other settings, answers to prayers start to come. So I just think this is a really important thing to teach people-this process. And it's a part of who we are and not an event, as you talked about. We try to make it linear. I say my prayers; now the answer comes. It's not that quick, and it's not that easy. So thank you. That's been really helpful. One other thing. We're not done yet with, "what are you hearing that's not said?" We have to be careful. People all over the world are going to listen to this, and the means or the modes of revelation can vary. Not by geography, but, for example, in many parts of Africa, people have remarkable dreams. Now, I wouldn't speak for anybody else in this room or anybody else who is listening, but I don't have dreams like some of the faithful Saints in Africa do. It's not uncommon for the missionaries to come to teach someone- They encounter someone on the street and the people will say, "I saw you in a dream, and you have a message from God. I want to hear what you have to tell me." I don't know that missionaries in Los*Angeles have many of those experiences every day. So what we also have to be careful to do- We teach largely from our own experience. We can impose a pattern on people that's not a pattern they've experienced. It doesn't mean that their pattern is any less valid or useful, but it's a variety of different ways that the Spirit of the Lord can connect with somebody's mind and heart. Anything else you're hearing that's not being said? Yes, ma'am.

Well, what I heard, and what I felt, is that really what it boils down to is understanding and having faith in my divinity, that I'm a child of God, of a Heavenly Father that loves me and wants my successes and wants to talk to me and communicate with me. And I think our youth, especially if they can understand who they are, and who they are, that Heavenly Father, we can have the Spirit with us always, that revelation always. He wants to communicate with us. And if we're trying to do good, and be good, and draw close to Him, He's always there. Thank you very much. Anybody else? Yes, sir. Thank you.

So, as we've been talking about how we often fall into the trap of trying to follow a formula or follow a specific process, I've been thinking about, why is that the case, and why does that happen so often? I think all of us could relate to that. And I think it's because- At least one reason is because we lack confidence in ourselves to be able to do it on our own, so we want to rely on a process that somebody else has come up with, that has worked for them. So, I guess the question is, how do we increase our confidence in being able to receive revelation on our own and not try to rely on a process we've heard from someone else? Now, you know my first question, don't you? What do you think?

I guess, you know, any way I've increased my confidence is by experience.

But I feel like it's a little bit difficult in this situation, because if you don't have those experiences often, you don't get a chance to build up that confidence. Okay. Let me read a quote.

This is Joseph*F. Smith. This is a credible source for someone who is beginning this journey that says, how do I get confidence in this? President of the Church: "Show me Latter-day Saints who have to feed upon miracles, signs, and visions in order to keep them steadfast in the Church, and I will show you members of the Church who are not in good standing before God, and who are walking in slippery paths. It is not by marvelous manifestations unto us that we shall be established in the truth, but it is by humility and faithful obedience to the commandments and laws of God."16 Anybody can do that.

I think that builds, a little bit of at least, hope. If a President of the Church is talking about seemingly simple and ordinary things, I can do that. Anybody can do that. Another one from Joseph*F. Smith: "As a boy ... I would frequently go out and ask the Lord to show me some marvelous thing, in order that I might receive a testimony. But the Lord withheld marvels from me, and showed me the truth, line upon line, ... until He made me to know the truth from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet, and until doubt and fear had been absolutely purged from me. He did not have to send an angel from the heavens to do this, nor did He have to speak with the trump of an archangel. By the whisperings of the still small voice of the Spirit of the living God, He gave to me the testimony I possess." Now I'm not quite done. I think anybody can do that. Any struggling young person, any of us who are struggling, can take the first steps and do what Joseph*F. Smith did. "And by this principle and power He will give to all the children of men a knowledge of the truth that will stay with them, and it will make them to know the truth, as God knows it, and to do the will of the Father as Christ does it."17 "And no amount of marvelous manifestations will ever accomplish this."18 Does that make any sense? Does that help? Yes, it does. I think we have a lot of people in the Church who want to see a light on the road to Damascus and then I'll believe. Really?

Was Paul/Saul in any condition to recognize the still, small voice? He had to have a spiritual slap upside the head. "If I could just see an angel the way Alma the Younger did*..." Really? Is that what you want? I don't think Alma was in any condition to receive the still, small voice. And Joseph*F. Smith is saying, "It's not the angel. It's not the light. It's the still, small voice. Just go and do." Now, the point I have to make is that if we're not keeping the commandments, then we can't have that confidence and we won't have the companionship of the Spirit. So there are young people who need to repent, and there are young people who are so hard on themselves that they never think they're good enough. You don't have to be perfect; you just have to be good, doing your best, and pressing forward. Help me know if this responded at all. Yeah, it did. Thank you. What did you learn in what we just did? What I learn in what we just did? In what we just did in the last two or three minutes.

I learned that it's not a matter of magnitude, or how strong a feeling you have, or how impressive something is, or great-however you want to describe it-but it's a matter of small and simple things that build up over time. And that something like that cannot be replaced by any one, or multiple, large experiences, if you would say it that way. And what did you learn about helping a young person to start that journey? That was the real crux of the question that you asked.

That the most important thing is to just go try and to do your best. And that we don't have to be perfect but that we just have to try. And if you take that first step forward, then you'll keep building on that. But if you wait until you feel like you're ready, you're never going to feel like you're ready. And you began to get the answer to your question when you started trying to answer it, because the Holy Ghost then illuminates your mind and expands your understanding. Now, someone will turn that into a formula, and they'll say, "Every time a person asks you a question, just say, 'Well what do you think?'" You've got to love them, and you have to be genuinely concerned. That may work with you; it may not have worked with someone else. So don't make it formulaic; you have to be open to a wide range of things that you might invite and entice somebody to do so they can act and learn for themselves. Great question. Okay, what do you want to do? I have some other questions if that's all right. Okay. I want to make a quick editorial comment. I think, though, for our teachers-because I think what we've just learned is remarkably helpful-but also the model. I know we've just been cautioned not to turn this into a formula, but there's a principle here behind being focused on students and their progress and not just what we say, right? And to respond with- So, while you don't want formulas, I hope you pay attention to the model and the principles behind the model, and what it means to be centered on students and not on just what we say. Anyway, thank you for teaching us. If you love them, and if you really are trying to do what heaven wants, you'll just be guided in the simplest of ways. The questions are not complicated. You're just trying to find out where they are because you really care. And so my question actually builds off of that, really. You've spoken a lot and written a lot about being student-centered and focused on their progress. And I just wondered if there's more that you would like to teach us about inviting the Holy Ghost into that process and teaching for learning, not just to have said something, if that makes sense. "Appoint among yourselves a teacher, and let not all be spokesman at once, but let one speak at a time, and let all listen unto his sayings, that when all have spoken, that all may be edified of all, and that every man and woman may have an equal privilege." "Appoint among yourselves a teacher." This is- I'm not suggesting that this is what this phrase means, but it's something to think about. We're not the teachers; the Holy Ghost is. That is an admonition to appoint the Holy Ghost to be the teacher. And a pattern, not the only pattern, a pattern is to let one speak at a time and let all listen unto his sayings. That sounds so simple, and it might even look easy. This is not a TV talk show. "Hey, what do you think?" If people feel safe and they can give voice to some of their questions and what they're not sure about, they don't learn from other people in the room, but they participate in a collective expression of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as everyone in that setting is asking, seeking, and knocking. And in that individual and collective exercise of faith, we invite. The word "appoint" doesn't mean "designate." We can't designate the Holy Ghost to be the teacher, but we can invite and entice the Holy Ghost to be the teacher. I want to tell you just quickly about a missionary meeting. We had been discussing a number of issues, and I asked the missionaries, "What are you hearing that has not been said?" Now, we've had that question here. You ready for this answer from an 18-year-old missionary in the field for four weeks? His answer was, "Elder Bednar, if I hear it in your voice or in the voice of another missionary, that's a message for everyone. If I feel it in my heart or have a thought in my mind, that's from God, and it's just for me." Are you dazzled by that answer?

How long would it take to lecture somebody or to create some kind of role-play or other experience where an 18-year-old would have that spiritual insight? I just don't know how you do that. So, inviting them to act, to exercise their faith, helps to entice the Holy Ghost to teach them individually and everybody collectively. And I think everything about this- It's not just being learner-centered; it's being learner-centered and inviting the Holy Ghost to be the teacher. We have a role to play. We do the inviting and the enticing, and some of the- Not facilitating. We don't direct. We don't facilitate. We guide. But then the Holy Ghost does things in remarkable ways. So, I don't want to get ahead of what you would do to direct this conversation, but I think people are really trying to do this and have questions and even obstacles in doing this well in their efforts to do this. Do you mind if we ask the same question or maybe allow them to ask questions about this topic? Certainly. I don't remember where we left the mic, though. Where's the mic? There we go. Thank you. Questions you'd like to ask that Brother Webb will be eager to answer? (Laughter) Please.

Thank you. I guess my question comes with somewhat of an illustration. The question is, "How do we then help ourselves and the youth to identify that it's them hearing it from the Spirit and not them hearing it from someone around them?" I had a young lady, by illustration, walk up and tell me one day that I was the best seminary teacher she ever had. Made me feel fantastic. And then she said, "Do you remember the day that you said this?" And I said, "I didn't say that." "Oh, but do you remember we were talking about this, and this is what you told me? And it's changed my life forever. "Do you remember the day you said that?" And I could absolutely remember the day, and with total clarity remember not at all what I said. In fact, (chuckles) I wouldn't tell her this, this is not at all what we were talking about, and she kind of missed the point of what I was trying to tell her, (laughter) which made me feel like a great teacher, but- I don't want to sidetrack you. Isn't that incredibly great? No, it was awesome. That's the whole point! But how do I- And she was very sweet because I said, "Well, that wasn't me; that was you from the Spirit." "Oh, Brother (inaudible)*..." But how do I help her to see that she has this beautiful relationship with the Savior and that she is in the revelation constantly and receiving it from Him, and help her to identify that so she can have that confidence to seek it more for herself, and to tune out every day, and tune into the Spirit? How do I help her to see that? What might you invite her to do so that she would have eyes to see what she's not before seen?

Something that helps me, perhaps? Pondering, reflecting, writing down, so that I can identify that experience. "The Holy Ghost will bring all things to our remembrance." I'm just trying to come up with an illustration, so this doesn't just fly at 80,000 feet. She's had this remarkable experience where she heard something that clearly was not being said. And you help her identify that one. Ask her to think through her experience. "Come back in two or three days. Can you find one or two more episodes like that? And do you find a pattern in those two or three things that have taken place, and what brought that about?" Have her think about that. And when she comes back, she's going to dazzle you with something like, "If I hear it in the voices of everyone, that's intended for everybody. But if it's just to me, that's from God to me individually." Now I understand we have a wide range of young people, and they have all kinds of challenges and issues, but we ought to expect them to be what we tell them they are. And we ought to invite them to act. And you will stand all amazed at what they come up with. So I don't know this girl. I haven't looked at her. I don't know if that's the right question, but that's an example of, think first about what do you invite them to do so that they can learn what they need to learn? Instead of thinking, "How do I help her?" or "What do I tell her to do?" Now, the look on your face is going, hmm? I see other faces in other students, and now you've got me thinking, so- You know, I don't have you thinking. (Laughter) Very good point. So can you take just a second? What's happening to you right now as you think about that? For lack of a better term, I'm marinating in the Spirit, and you've got- I am now engaged in a moment where I'm thinking deeper, and the Spirit's prompting me. And, hopefully, I can look into her eyes, and when the time comes-and that student or another student-we'll be able to engage in a process where she then recognizes that it's the Spirit prompting her. Good. Thank you very much.

Anybody else? You're afraid to ask a question because you think I'm just going to turn it back on you. (Laughter) Please?

So we've talked a lot about listening today and observing and those kinds of things. I think we're really good at seeing and hearing and not so good at observing and listening. And so I would love more insight into- I don't know if we even train it. We say you should listen, and we don't talk a lot about how you listen and do that. Can you help us understand or maybe learn how to better listen and better observe so that we can see people so that we can do what's going on here? The answer is no. I can't. But I can tell you how you can get it. I would recommend that you get a copy of the Book of Mormon-inexpensive, paperback copy-read it from beginning to end. Don't do a computer keyword search. And look for every instance of "eyes to see and ears to hear." And do that in the Doctrine and Covenants, and do that in the New Testament. Do it in all of them. There are not words to describe what I'm about to try to describe. As you go into the scriptures as an agent, asking, seeking, and knocking, and your question is, "How do I see what I usually don't see? How do I hear what I don't usually hear?" And you go into the scriptures with those questions, the Holy Ghost will tutor you individually and provide the answer to your question. I can't give it to you. I can use words like, "You just have to really love them." And you know that. But for you, as you do that in the scriptures, the Holy Ghost will teach you individually, privately, and personally what that answer is for you. So I can't tell you the answer, but that's how you get the answer. Is that responsive to your question? It's probably better than the answer, (chuckles) so thanks for inviting me to act. Thank you. See, your comment triggers an episode with my wife. Susan is, always has been, the best visiting teacher in the history of the Church. There has never been anybody who has done it the way she does. It's just amazing. When President Nelson said "higher and holier" she listened, and she wanted to figure out what that was. Now you talk about simplify. You ready for this? She said, "David, I've been thinking about this and praying, and I've come to a pretty stunning conclusion. I can't minister until I know what the people to whom I'm supposed to be a minister tell me what it means, if it's higher and holier." So the inspiration to her was to go to the sisters, some of whom she had been visiting teaching for a long time, and she said, "What does it mean to you that ministering will now be higher and holier?" Now that's the simplest question you could- It's the most obvious question you could ask, and nobody asks it. Which is why you have to be inspired to ask it. The responses she got from the sisters that she knew blew her mind. So one sister, who is in a setting where a spouse is not supportive of her membership in the Church, she said, "I need to be with women who believe like I believe.

Can you and your companion find it in your schedule to go to the temple and maybe more than once a month? I need that. And then could we go to lunch and just talk? How about if we had a general con-" Now, this is coming from the person; it's not her telling the lady what we're going to do. The lady's telling her what higher and holier means to her. And the woman says, "What if we pick a general conference talk every month, and then we go another time and have lunch, and we can talk about the conference talk?" And Susan is going, "What did I do wrong that she never told me this before?" See, everybody- What did I do? You didn't do anything wrong. But now it's higher and holier. Eyes have been opened to see that in ways it hasn't been seen before. That's really simple. And what we try to do is complicate it most of the time. Thank you. Anybody else on this one?

Okay.

Well, we're actually coming toward the end of our time together, so- Any final things you want to highlight? Anything you want to correct? (Chuckles) No. No, just- I think I can speak for all of us. We love you and sustain you, and we're just really grateful for what you've taught us today and the invitation of the Holy Ghost to teach us and to act on the things we've heard so that we can continue to learn, so thank you very much. We want to give you the last few minutes-however much time you want, in fact-to share whatever you feel to share and your testimony before we close. Well, the very first thing that comes to my mind to everyone who hears this "Evening with a General Authority," I love you. I love who you are, I love what you're striving to become, I love what you do. We can all improve. But I say thank you. To live on the earth in this season of the dispensation of the fulness of times is the blessing of a lifetime. I say thank you on behalf of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve and the Church Board of Education. Thank you.

A number of years ago, when I was in Rexburg, President and Sister Hinckley were there. And we were having a dinner to express gratitude to people who were supporting the university. And I was seated next to President Hinckley, and we were talking about his schedule and all the talks that he had to prepare. And there was a moment where my hands were just up on the table, and kind of suddenly he just patted my hand, and he said, "David, this is the greatest season in the history of the restored Church. David, it wasn't better in the days of Joseph. It wasn't better in the days of Brigham. Never has the Church been as well-regarded, as well-recognized as it is today in all the world. David, never have we had the resources to move this work forward in all the world. David, this is the greatest season in the history of the restored Church." And he's right. Absolutely right. Think of the things we are blessed to see. Consider that we live this year in the 200th anniversary of the First Vision, and we see the Church in Papua, New*Guinea, where a temple has been announced. In Phnom Penh, Cambodia. Who would've thought? I'm old enough to remember when I could not have conceived the thought that we would have missionaries in the Soviet Union. And now we have a temple in Ukraine and missionaries in formerly communist countries. This is the greatest season in the history of the restored Church. And we have a particular responsibility in this day.

There's not a gracious way to say this. When I was the president of BYU-Idaho, every Tuesday we had a devotional. And every single devotional speaker began his or her message with, "You're the finest generation. You have been saved for this day." I've had that up to here; I'm just tired of hearing it. That's right. In Arkansas, where I lived for a long time, there's a saying: "When you pick up a stick, you get both ends." If they've been saved for this day, it's because they have a lot to do, and we have a role in helping them to be ready for that, and we have a lot to do. And we need to be ready for that. This is the greatest season in the history of the restored Church. The greatest opposition, the greatest opportunities.

I love you because together in this day, we have this opportunity to serve, to bear testimony, to minister, and to succor.

The longer I serve, the less satisfied I am with words, but I pray the Holy Ghost will fill the gap between the words I express and what I yearn to convey. I witness that the Father and the Son did appear to Joseph Smith 200*years ago. I witness that the Father is our Father, and He is the author of the plan of happiness. Jesus the Christ, I know, I testify, and I witness, is the Only Begotten Son of the Eternal Father. And I witness that He lives. He is resurrected; the tomb is empty. "He is not here, for he is risen." I witness that through the Prophet Joseph Smith, priesthood authority, priesthood keys have been restored to the earth and that the appearance of the Father and the Son initiated the Restoration of the gospel, and I witness that that Restoration is ongoing.

My beloved brothers and sisters, I witness that all of these things are true. Wherever you may be, anywhere in the world, I invoke this blessing upon you, that in your desire to serve you'll be magnified and enlarged, that in your capacity you'll be illuminated, strengthened, and that your capacity will be enriched. It will bless your individual life, your family, and those whom you serve, now and forever. I bear that witness, and I express my love to you in the sacred name of the Lord Jesus Christ, amen.

Our Father in Heaven, we're so grateful, Father, for the opportunity we've had to come together to learn from each other, to learn from Elder Bednar, and to learn from the Spirit. We are grateful for the youth. We are grateful for the opportunity we have to rub shoulders with them, and we recognize their faith and the concerns they have. And we pray that we may be able to see them and love them as our Father, as our Savior, does. We pray that we can look for opportunities to invite and to encourage and to guide. We pray for an increase measure of charity and of meekness and of hope. And we pray that we may take those things that we have learned today and apply them as we go home to our families, and to our classrooms, and to our students. We love Thee, Father, and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

# data[].attributes.attachment_link.title
An Evening with a General Authority-Elder Bednar

# data[].attributes.attachment_link.description
Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and Elder Paul V. Johnson of the Seventy participate in the February 2020 Evening with a General Authority event.