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Critical Dialogue on Inclusion in Education

Title: The perception of Inclusive Education in Non-Western Societies in the example of Kazakhstan, China and Pakistan

1. Aya (AA): Hi, girls! I hope you are doing well. I was reading articles and books related to our topic of discussion, and last time as Priscilia said, “the more I know the less I know” seems to me a fact now. What about you? How about your feelings?

1*Baila (BC): Good to hear from you. You are very right Aya, I do have the same feelings. This is the very first time I am digging deep in the stretched desert of inclusion in this class. Though I was a teacher by profession and a little familiar with different forms of inclusion, I never studied in this depth. It’s a whole world to me now.

1.hongxue（hx）Oh really, Baila, you were a teacher? That's cool. I've been learning as a student. I've actually been reading a lot about the course lately, so it's really nice to start a discussion with you.

2.Aya: To be honest, I was worrying much about this given assignment, as you know I am from Central Asia, Kazakhstan, and the topics of our discussions are significantly new for my cognition and the way of thinking. Before I read the works of several authors, for example David Mitchell (2008) and Paulo Freire’s “Pedagogy of Oppressed”, there was only one way of understanding the term “inclusive education” in my head which is inclusion of disabled children. What is more, after the tutorial classes, where other students were sharing their views on different types of inclusion in education and society, I thought, “Why it is not in the agenda in Kazakhstan? Why it seems to me as Kazakhstan exists in the different time shape, even all the discussed problems regarding the level of inclusion are present in Kazakhstan?” Was it the same for you or different? However, having read “Pedagogy of Oppressed” of Paulo Freire, comparing the format that I am studying in now with the Kazakhstani “banking model of education”, I see clear disadvantages of the latter. There is a plenty of things I want to share and discuss with you, and I am excited to know from you and with you.

2* Baila (BC) The topic is very wide and eye opening the way you said about “Pedagogy of Oppressed”, I read the one translated by Myra Bergman Ramos and in the first chapter she talks about oppressors, oppression and oppressed as a mutual achievement and later as “banking” concept of “uncomplete” human beings and their conscious attempt of being more human. The situation in my country, Pakistan, is the same. We do not have any consistent education system there. Honestly speaking, this is a great forum to open our heart as a critic for the betterment of humankind.

2 hongxue: Ancient China probably did a better job of inclusive education than it does today. In ancient China, Confucius, a great thinker and educator, put forward the educational concept of "teaching students according to their aptitude". That is, different teaching methods are carried out for different types of students. On the contrary, it is difficult to have diversity and inclusiveness in all aspects under the current Chinese system. This has to do with the establishment of a single ideology that we have had for more than 2,000 years. We are brought up to accept the same standard of thought, so we tend to be intolerant of difference. This is true educationally and culturally.

3*Baila (BC): Yes Hongxue, I think culture matters a lot. In my country everyone tries to be better than the others, a competition sort of culture. Every single parent, whether qualified or just illiterate ones, they want their child to get an “A”. No one is concerned about the knowledge part of the Pedagogy. Basically, this culture is derived from a blend which is still there after 74 years of freedom.  There is a designed curriculum and teachers must make sure it is followed not even considering the inclusion factors in the state schools. This is the same as Murry and Kalaji (2018) expressed" that the narrow focus on learning outcomes and responsibilization of students means that there is less time and space for this comfort of opening up things for questioning and different ways and different knowledges because we are driven by things like achievement of targets and assessments".

3 hongxue：I really know what you mean, this phenomenon has been hotly discussed in China recently called "neijuan". That is, "inroll". We are all sitting in the square watching an outdoor movie. Everyone is sitting and can see the screen, but someone in the front row stands up. The people behind him need to stand up too if they want to continue watching the movie. At last the whole square stood up to watch the film. In a competitive culture, education will lose its original meaning and become the purpose of competition

3 Aya: I agree with both of you about the competition inherent in culture, something similar is happening in Kazakhstan, where all students try to be excellent students, without going into the essence of what they are studying and not thinking critically, but only in order to be the best and to be praised. This definitely affects the quality of education in the country, and the student-teacher relationship is based on the banking concept, which greatly inhibits the development of creativity in the educational environment.

4 hongxue: In the past, students only had to go to school, but now they have to go to cram schools to get better grades in middle and high schools. Especially in China, there are so many of us that the pressure of competition becomes more and more intense. In Glasgow, for example, Chinese supermarkets and restaurants are always open longer than their British counterparts. That's our culture. Everyone is striving to work harder and more diligently than others, which is the most important reason for the introversion of education.

4* Baila (BC): As Giovanna quoted a quote from Sarah Ahmed in 2017 “May be an institution is like an old garment”. Giovanna related it to an old coat.  I totally agree that disruptive approach involves teachers and students collaboratively changing the shape of the garment rather than changing the student.

However, in my country to fulfil the gaps in local Education System so many different schools of thoughts invaded. Based on Cultural Inclusion now we have like American, British, Australian, German, Chinese, Western, Islamic, English Medium, Urdu Medium, IT Based, Kindergarten system and Montessori system. Despite the effects and effectiveness of learning in the above education systems the culture that is carried from home matters a lot to me. Then Evening classes, Extra Classes, makeup classes, Kid’s Clubs for Co-curricular activities, then Quran Classes. All these have a different way and spirit of teaching.
Major factor affecting the whole system is the Power Imbalance. The Socio-cultural Theory by Foucautt (1926-1884) as an idea explained in three points. First of all the "Hierarchy" Like observing top (management) to bottom(students). Then second comes " Normalizing the judgement" and then comes Examination on the third number that combines the hierarchy and normalization of judgement.  I think we all agree that education is for  "Teaching students to think critically"

6hongxue：Not only that. Asian students encounter other shocks when they study in Europe. For example, our classes now take the form of seminars. But Asian students are used to one-sided education and sometimes think western seminar education is very complicated. I once read a study by the University of Edinburgh that analysed the misgivings of some Asian, especially Chinese, students about speaking out. Such concerns can also be a deterrent to universities using the seminar approach.

1. Some academic cultures require students to respect authority and not be noticed. Questioning ideas in class is seen as conceit.
2. Some cultures advocate a strong sense of social group solidarity, and the needs of the social group are valued more than those of each individual.
3. Some educational cultures value the transfer of knowledge from those who know (instructors) to those who don't (students). Therefore, students' contribution is considered a waste of valuable time.
4. Some academic cultures value silence as a form of respect, whereas in Socratic systems silence is seen as evidence that students are not prepared for the classroom.
5. When students are asked to adapt to different learning styles, such as seminar discussions, they may feel that their cultural values are being challenged or denied, so they are reluctant to participate.
6. English education cultures value the ability to cooperate with strangers, while students from other cultures may take longer to feel comfortable collaborating.

Oh yes, we are not native English speakers, maybe language difference is a big problem, what do you think about language inclusion?

5* Baila (BC) Hongxue You were talking about the “Double Reduction Policy” in China, I am not sure if it is going to benefit as if I consider the variation of the requirements of students and the contribution of teachers it is much more than that the extra classes. If the students are unable to cope with the education in the schools and they are unable to get an extra help to me, they will start dragging behind and then my loose interest. But it is quite controversial as Teachers can deliberately focus more on evening classes to make money out of it.

6* Baila (BC): I think, Hongxue the problem you highlighted in China are mostly explained by the Socio-cultural Theory by Foucautt (1926-1884). We can say as this is probably due to a state education policy, whereas in my country  the affordability in terms of inclusion is another major factor. You have to buy education depending on your pocket if you don't want to join state schools.  Policies and Policy Makers also matter in cultural inclusion however they are deciding the curriculum for state schools. So we get a variety of students and a clear cut disparity some who qualify for Western Education Systems and it is not new to them.  This is the current situation and the change happened over the past 3 decades.

For others Language inclusion is a serious matter. I endorse both of you and your views about English language which is fanaticized. A child in my country struggles to get command over so many languages simultaneously, mother tongue depending on the geographic constitution and the family or tribes for example Punjabi, Pushto, Saraiki, Pothohari, Sindhi, Balochi, Gujrati, Brahui, Shina, Kashmiri. Urdu is our national language and a blend of above and some words from English, Arabic, Persian, Bengali, Turkish. Now inclusion lies in the translation of the educational stuff as every study material cannot be available in Urdu. After the basic education even in State Schools, switching to English is a major transition for the core subjects for teaching and learning. English comes as third or fourth language for each person in my country.
If I am not wrong, I can relate it to “oppressors, oppression and oppressed as a mutual achievement”. Both teachers and students need to communicate. Paulo Freire  says " students are like containers to be filled by what teacher decides". He was against this idea as to him " education should be through dialogue rooted in lived experience".

6*  aya：Oh, Baila! Speaking so many languages and focusing on learning process is extremely stressful I guess. I totally agree that communication needed. Language Inclusion is a very broad topic of discussion in the context of my country. Now, thinking about language inclusion in education in a country where more than 130 nationalities live, I cannot remember schools where education takes place in the same 130 languages. Of course, this is possible in an ideal world, where each student has his own teacher, but in reality, the situation with the inclusiveness of the language is not satisfactory. According to the data on the website https://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/761/Kazakhstan-EDUCATIONAL-SYSTEM-OVERVIEW.html, secondary education at school can be obtained in 7 languages, including Russian and Kazakh, which dominate in number. However, the problem is that higher education can only be obtained by categories of people who know one of 3 languages: Russian, Kazakh, and English. That means students in non-dominant languages ​​will inevitably have to go through the so-called “submersion education” process, which Ingrid Piller (2016-Linguistic Diversity and Social Justice) defines as the process of learning through a new language, where content is absorbed after understanding the meaning of the text. Which in turn contradicts the true goals of inclusive education. As I said earlier in the class about the large gap between the levels of understanding of inclusion in KZ and the UK, now it seems to me somewhat ridiculous to consider language inclusion in the context of all 130 nationalities, while at the moment there is a problem of access to quality education not only among ethnic minorities, but also among the majority who use the official language of the country in everyday life. For example: until 2020, in order to enter a university, a student had to pass the Unified National Test, which included Kazakh, mathematics, history, an elective subject, and Russian. Although, obviously, in Kazakhstan there are southern and western regions that do not speak Russian, which must take the Russian language test on a par with the northern regions, where the situation with the Russian language is better, that is, it is used in everyday life. Or vice versa, Russian classes are obliged to take the Kazakh language on an equal basis with the Kazakhs, with the same program. Moreover, there are a decent number of ethnic Kazakhs, who returned to the country, who did not learn Russian in the school curriculum, who are also required to pass Russian on a test that allows them to get a higher education. But, should not the developing curricula in schools and the system of assessing the academic success of students be adapted, as David Mitchell, who just worked in Kazakhstan, defined it to us. This whole situation with the Russian language in Kazakhstan has taken root historically, since Kazakhstan was in the Soviet Union, and here I would like to make an analogy with the concept of oppressors and oppressed, where the Soviet Union was in the role of the oppressor, and Kazakhstan in the role of the oppressed. But what cannot be done according to Paulo Freire is to swap these two groups of people, which is reflected in Kazakhstan, not only in education, but also in other spheres of life. I believe that this problem needs to be dealt with first, before moving on to the language inclusion of all minorities, in order to avoid failure.

7* Baila (BC): Aya sometimes learning so many languages is really hard and not fascinating at all. End of the day you are thinking in your native language, translating in your mind to speak and convey in the language you have to express. For instance, English is an example for the countries where it is a second language.  So, it takes longer to process the whole idea.

But we can’t deny that we do face as Asians different types of inclusions. If we know the language, we don’t have the same accent. Teachers normally say that accent is not important but most of the time a clear disparity is so obvious. This leads to the learning inclusion, at times adding to anxiety and stress.

8* Baila (BC): You know “Whitewater Writers” is a really good idea to get to have the insight of oppressions. But to me, first identifying the inclusions and then accepting the problems are the main steps towards solutions. Like in our society people are also facing “anxiety, a lot of fear, isolation, barely thinking what to do” still unexplored. So many inclusions.

Young (2009) advocates the “voice of knowledge”. I would summarize our discussion with his ideology that knowledge is essential but what knowledge and who’s knowledge?

We have just discussed two types of inclusions and explored so much happening on the globe.