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all science, all ways to interpret, need to have many different ways to explain

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all science, all ways to interpret, need to have many different ways to explain

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Yes, all science, if science is a practice of figuring out phenomenon. All try to figure out how such variety is related.

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Yes, all science, if science is a practice of figuring out phenomenon. All try to figure out how such variety is related.

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Yes, because we used SEPs but also science is in everything!

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Yes, because we used SEPs but also science is in everything!

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Students should be able to discuss & reach conclusions without having there be a "right" answer..

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Students should be able to discuss & reach conclusions without having there be a "right" answer..

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Science is a way to answer questions about the world

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Science is a way to answer questions about the world

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Based on that definition then either taxonomy is science because they are based on different questions.

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I think they are science because they use the SEPs, but might not be included in our cultural mainstream definition of science

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Taxonomies are constructed to answer questions about patterns - the process of construction universally involves the science practices, but the questions they are answering or the purpose they are serving are not necessarily “scientific.”

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We sometimes think of things as more "science" when they are more "objective", like based on DNA. But the DNA taxonomy is not necessarily as useful in the day to day. 

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We sometimes think of things as more "science" when they are more "objective", like based on DNA. But the DNA taxonomy is not necessarily as useful in the day to day. 

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Depends on the student, but I would say many of them feel that anything involving technology is more "scientific"

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Depends on the student, but I would say many of them feel that anything involving technology is more "scientific"

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All are science, because they all involve the use of science practices. The one that uses more sources of evidence, more types of data might be considered more science. 

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All are science, because they all involve the use of science practices. The one that uses more sources of evidence, more types of data might be considered more science. 

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I don't think that one taxonomy is more science-legitimate than the other. 

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I don't think that one taxonomy is more science-legitimate than the other. 

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The Cherokee taxonomy seems mos def based on tactile experience, and since that is sensory, how can it not be science based?

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Absolutely yes, all "science" - If science, as Robin Wall Kimmerer says, is to "polish the art of seeing," we can see each of these plants in the real world, and then we must "polish" what we see in some way

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Absolutely yes, all "science" - If science, as Robin Wall Kimmerer says, is to "polish the art of seeing," we can see each of these plants in the real world, and then we must "polish" what we see in some way

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They are all science. They all use observable information about the items to classify them. They all have a systematic approach towards explaining things in the natural world.

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all sensemaking about the natural world; 

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all sensemaking about the natural world; 

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maybe we should call SEPs "sensemaking practices". I think that what we think of as "modern science" seeks to find universal/generalizable knowledge which isn't the only valuable purpose, but I think is a purpose of science knowledge that distinguishes it from the many other useful knowledge-making projects that humans engage in. I don't think it's necessary to call all sensemaking "science" as long as we see multiple knowledge systems as valuable for the purposes they are designed for.

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some students would be hesitant at first because they have very narrow definitions of science until we help them expand it

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some students would be hesitant at first because they have very narrow definitions of science until we help them expand it

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The younger the student, the more the preconception that science is something that is what adults know about and that they have to learn; that there's a certain way or a certain content that is 'right'.

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The younger the student, the more the preconception that science is something that is what adults know about and that they have to learn; that there's a certain way or a certain content that is 'right'.

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I think people in general get really wrapped in as science is a bunch of facts that mean something special that only smart people know. Nope, it's a process and practice to help build understanding and it just so happens a bunch of people have done this a bunch of times and so we have a bunch of things that people consider the way we categorize knowledge. I do think things that are used and reviewed by more people tend to have a bit more credibility, but if it works for you or your needs, awesome.

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All are "science". From a western/colonizer point of view, only one is scientific but we need to shift that way of thinking.

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All are "science". From a western/colonizer point of view, only one is scientific but we need to shift that way of thinking.

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Depends on what other adults and educators have told them is science and not science. We should probably have a kindergartner teach the high schoolers about what is and isn't science

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Students would probably think that the taxonomy used by the people they think of as scientists is the more scientific one. They do not usually arrive in my class thinking that they themselves are scientists, a belief I try to adjust over time. 

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Students would probably think that the taxonomy used by the people they think of as scientists is the more scientific one. They do not usually arrive in my class thinking that they themselves are scientists, a belief I try to adjust over time. 

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My understanding of how some students think is that if I tell them something it must be "science".

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My understanding of how some students think is that if I tell them something it must be "science".

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On the other hand it depends on whether they feel compelled to ask "When am I going to use this?"

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Perhaps we might support our students in seeing how these are all 'scientific' ways of knowing and doing science

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Perhaps we might support our students in seeing how these are all 'scientific' ways of knowing and doing science

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All taxonomies count as science, since one part of science is gathering observations to form conclusions. One isn't more "science" than the other, though some might count the evolutionary tree as more "science" based on what we've learned societally to count as science. Something more "objective" to many people might be perceived as more "science" versus those that are more rooted in cultural/personal experiences could be harder to see the evidence for, if others aren't familiar with those experiences.

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Despite best efforts, kids get wrapped up in things as binary, right and wrong, science and not. But are you asking questions? That's science. Making categories? SCIENCE. Making your own system to build understanding and clarification. BOOM, SCIENCE.

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I absolutely think MS and HS students are trained (by us, by school) to say that the evolutionary tree taxonomy is more "science-y" than the Cherokee taxonomy. I think their answer is filtered through their experience in a racist and prescriptive education system.

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I absolutely think MS and HS students are trained (by us, by school) to say that the evolutionary tree taxonomy is more "science-y" than the Cherokee taxonomy. I think their answer is filtered through their experience in a racist and prescriptive education system.

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It depends on the culture. Some can be viewed as more scientific than others based on how their cultural experiences and upbringing. In addition, there may be other factors such as how countries view things as scientific and non-scientific. There are no clear cut answers

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They are all based on observation so are all "scientific" based on patterns. However the evolutionary tree is also based on evolution based on adaptation with the characteristics being in the genome. So my HS classes would say that it is more scientific.H owever my elementary students would not understand it where they would the other two.

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What is science?  Is it inquiry in search of Truth?  Do our taxonomies serve a search for truth?  Is truth relative to different populations?  Does taxonomy for cherokee serve their search for truth?  does taxonomy involving DNA serve a deeper truth?  what are the different framings of truth and how do they serve our day to day lives?

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What is science?  Is it inquiry in search of Truth?  Do our taxonomies serve a search for truth?  Is truth relative to different populations?  Does taxonomy for cherokee serve their search for truth?  does taxonomy involving DNA serve a deeper truth?  what are the different framings of truth and how do they serve our day to day lives?