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What was the meaning behind the death of the littleun with the mark on his face?

Mollie - The death was the first death on the island, so that is significant. But, the fact that the boys didn't seem to care, that they never thought to look for him or mention him after that day tells alot more about their behaivor than the fact that it happened does.

Khareem Leslie- Since it was the first death I think this meant that there would have been more deaths on the island, and after that .

Jhania Smith- It showed the outcome of carelessness and the consequences of that. Also the inexperience of working with fire. The boys never thought of a way to control the fire and prevent it from spreading. It also open the eyes of readers to let them know, this is not just a typical little lost- on - an- island situation where they are saved within days and everything is alright. It shows the violence and sadness that is to come.

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Piggy’s glasses have a big symbolic value in the book. What do they represent in real life, and what can be an example.

Jhania Smith- The glasses were used to make fire. The author wanted show the importance of having a fire for survival with Piggy's glasses. Also, when his glasses were taken from him, the author also showed the sort of vulnerability and hopelessness that

I partly agree with your answer, because I think that Piggy's glasses are a symbol of his attachment to civilization. As he can't see without them, it represents clear thought and sight that Piggy so longs.

Alex Vianey- Piggy's glasses in the story have a huge symbolic meaning. A real life idea or object the glasses could be related to is the logical side of civilization. In the novel, the fire able to be created is a logical plan for rescue, and an overall good idea because of the logic and intelligence of the idea. In real life, this represents an orderly civilization, and one that is scientific and

Elias Murcia- Piggy's glasses represented something of value. Something everyone will fight for because they know they cannot live without it. It is almost like money.

Mollie Cole - Piggy's glasses represent life and hope. Without the fire, there is no way they would even have a chance of getting off the island. Without the glasses, there was no chance of making fire. The glasses were their hope to get resuced and back to normal life.

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In the story, how does Roger’s behavior change from the time when he throws rocks, “aiming to miss” until the end? Why do you think this?
Elias Murcia- I think it is ironic how in the beginning Roger was throwing rocks at the littluns and was trying not to hurt them because he still had some restraint, but near the end of the book he was throwing boulders at Piggy with no constraint he just had bad aim.

This is exactly how I felt of Roger, and this just gives one example how savagery floods the mind and is released under no constraint

Grace Kim- This shows Roger's change as a character. In the beginning, his superego holds him back from actually harming the boys on the island, but by the end of the book, he demonstrates how his Id took over, and he was no longer afraid of hurting the other boys.

I completely agree with what you say because Roger goes from feeling restricted to feeling free and irresponsible

Mollie Cole - Roger always had vicious tendencies, as shown by when he throws rocks in the beginning. But, society did not let him live out his violent feelings, so he couldn't actually hit the littul'un, because it was against any morals and behaivors he had ever known. But, once he joined the tribe, and civility was cast off, he has no resistance to ignoring his morals and hurting the other boys.

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How do Jack's appeals to the boys (in order to gain favor and leadership) contrast to those promoted by Ralph and Piggy? Were there any similarities at all, and what were they?

Alex Vianey- Jack's views differed greatly in how he believed he should gain control of the group. On one hand, you have Ralph and Piggy. For the most part, Piggy gives the wisdom and ideas, and Ralph has them carried through in a civilized, mannered way. On the other hand, however, there is Jack, who leads by fear through his savagery. Being the young group of boys they are, they all listen to him throughout the later parts of the story as they look up to Jack as brave and strong, instead of Ralph and Piggy, who to the others, look like "wimps", always trying to negotiate through reason and logic. In conclusion, Jack leads by fear, while Ralph leads by order and law.

You completely said it right , I never thought that it Jack would win by using fear. You could also say that while Jack promoted having "fun," Ralph and Piggy promoted order and logos, and with kids, the choice of fun just took over

Mollie Cole - Jack tells the boys that they will have meat, and that they will have fun. He promises to protect them by defending them with violence. Even though Jack has no intention of trying to get them rescued, he promises a safe and enjoyable life. Ralph and Piggy never waver from their original intention: rescue.Since most of the boys have lost hope anyways, they are very attracted to the safety and security Jack is promising against the desperate and seemingly pointless attempts at civility Ralph and Piggy want.

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How could the flies on the sow's head represent the children on the island?

Grace- the flies could have represented mankind. As the beast represents evil, the flies on the pig represent how mankind wants to go towards evil, crave evil, and will do evil.

I agree with your comment because the children were the ones that have evil inside all of them but others could've showed more.

Khareem Leslie- It could represented the kids on the island. Since the flies where all over the island the kids also where all over the island.

Kathleen- The pig's head could symbolize evil. The flies crowding around the pig's head could symbolize the majority of the kids favoring evil.

Mollie - The pig is a representation of evil. The flies swarm to it just like the boys that turned savage swarmed to Jack's primitive ways .

Jhania Smith- The pig represents the evil of man. The decaying pig head with they flies swarming it could also represent violence and death, cruelty and ferocity.

I also agree with your comment because since the sow's head repsented the evil that lies within us, it starts to increase as the head decayed. Notice how in the end even though the head turned to bone, it was sitll grinning at Ralph and that could've symbolized as the violence in soiciety.

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type of novel

“lord of the flies” contains survivor journey of little boys, why is this book not formation novel or adventure novel but philosophical novel and what contents in this novel makes this book philosophical novel?

Mollie Cole - In an adventure novel, we wouldn't have seen the true instincts of the boys. We would have just seen them playing on the beach, making fire, and working together. All of the symbolism behind what the boys do is what makes this more a philosophical novel. Also, it is philosophical because it is exploring how the boys would have truly behaved, not how they "should" behave.

I totally agree with your opinion, as you said this book contains lots of symbolism, and it also explains the evil mankind, and how we walk toward the evil. it also shows some-kind of fear that we have in our mind even if what we are fearing don't even exist.

Kathleen- The book is philosophical because each character represents a different part of society. Jack, Ralph, and Piggy each symbolize the different kinds of people.

I agree with you, but i never thought about it's philosophical novel because of each characteristics of boys.

Khareem Leslie- The people in the book also shows symbols as the characters. Like for Piggy he showed the power of civilazation he was basically the bond between the two groups it gave both of them something to laugh about.

Jhania Smith- The book was supposed to, sort of, show and explain the many different thing in society will using a fictional, but realistic, scenario of young children. Most reader will think of children as being young and fragile since they are young and don't have the knowledge of older people. The author threw in many factors that have change society throughout many years- violence, leadership, survival, trust, ignorance... etc. It represented how such innocent young people can be dropped into a terrible situation unexpectedly and

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savage/modern kids needed the fire, so they used piggy’s glasses, without fire, it’s impossible to maintain as civilized people, so is there anything what author was trying to show by telling that Ralph’s group had glasses but Jack’s group didn’t?

Mollie - Since the glasses created fire, and fire was thier last hope, the fact that Ralph's group had the glasses shows that they still had hope and were trying to be rescued. Jack's group had forgotten about rescue, and even when they stole fire they only used to cook meat they had hunted, not to build a signal fire.

I didn't think about signal and it was hope of being rescued. I like your view of the glasses and fire.

Kathi Tran - I think Golding  told the audience that Ralph had an advantage over Jack because Jack showed characteristics that he wanted to do everything his way. In the beginning of the story Jack wasn't pleased that he wasn't chosen to be the leader, and so I think he just wanted to do everything the oppisite of Ralph

Jhania Smith- I think the author wanted to emphasize the importance of having fire. Without fire, you would have no warmth and you food would never be cooked. Ralph's way of leadership was more effective and well thought out. He was the one in the first place that had the quick thinking to use Piggy's glasses to make a fire. Jack is just the type of guy to say "We're going to do this because I say and we're going to do this now."

I totally agree with your opinion, I also thought that author was trying to show difference between savages and civilized people. The fire, it's the most basic thing that we need to have to live as civilized people.

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Jack's Changes

What characteristics does Jack show in the beginning of the book that foreshadows his future actions?

Alex Vianey- Jack from the very beginning of the story begins to show his lack of thinking logically as soon as he is not elected leader. Throughout the story, Jack is always arguing with the obvious protagonist, and always had differing opinions than form what Ralph has. For instance, when Ralph wants to build shelters for the group in case something happens in the future, Jack just wants to hunt pigs and does not even consider building shelters for long term future benefits. This shows Jack only goes by the minute, which later on leads to his savagery and cruelty.

Alexandra Malertte- To Alex: I agree with you and how the perception of Jack from the beginning of the story foreshadow his action further along in the story.

Mollie Cole - Even from the very first election, Jack is jealous and power hungry. When he doesn't win leadership over the whole group, he still demands complete control over the hunters. As the book goes on, he starts to get braver, less logical, and more blatant about challenging Ralph. When Jack lets the signal fire go out, it is a huge clue to the thing he would become. He loses hope, lets it go out, and only focuses on the savagery and primal pleasure of hunting.

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Foreshadowing

How was the incantation uttered by the Lord of the Flies perhaps a foreshadowing of the events that occurred on the island?

Alexandra Marlette- I think that when the Lord of the Flies utters those words it is kind of the symbolic introduction of true pure evil on the island. Only hours after the incounter the boy kill Simon.

I agree with your statement, since ever since that moment the boys started killing and hunting Piggy and Ralph.

Kathleen- His incantation shows that even though there is no real beast on the island, the boys will continue to do evil in excuse of hunting the beast. This foreshadows Simon's death.

Mollie - The Lord of the Flies says that Simon "would not interrupt their fun", so it is foreshadowing that Simon would be killed or gotten rid of.

I agree with your statement since that is what the reader can feel when they read this part of the book.

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The Conch and its presence

How the conch and it presence changes throughout the story?

Kathi Tran- The conch in the begining of the story symbolized that the person holding it had authority to speak, and no one could interupt them. But as the story progressed Jack become more savage and started to follow the conch's authority.

Alexandra Marlette-To Kathi: You understood the symbolism of the conch and how it changes over the course of the story very well, I couldn't have put it a better way.

Alex Vianey- At first, the conch gave whoever was holding it the temporary authority of the meeting, until someone else took the conch for their turn. this continued for a long time, but at one point in the story, the conch nearly instantaneously becomes meaningless. This is proven because in one meeting, the conch holds much authority and the people still listen to who holds it, but a short time later, they think it useless and no longer even meaningful.

Alexandra Marlette-To Alex: I agree, a the story progresses the conch losses its authority and no longer becomes useful during meetings. With people interrupting each other and nobody understanding the importance of their plans.

Minkyu- I think the conch is symbol of democracy, because anyone who have it gets authority to speak. but as the story goes on, kids start to ignore that authority. finally conch shatter with piggy's death, so authority or democracy was collapsed with piggy's death.

Jhania Smith- The conch represented authority

Mollie Cole - I don't really feel like the meaning of the conch changed. It always represented civilization and rules. But, as the book went on and the boys became more and more savage, the conch was disregareded more often and assemblies continued to be less productive.

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Deaths of Simon and Piggy

Could the deaths of Simon and Piggy be prevented? Why or why not?

Kathi Tran - The death of Simon could've been prevented if he would've cleaned himself up and didn't have the appreance of a beast. Or Ralph and Piggy could've stood up for Simon even though that might have not known it was Simon. For instance, Simon put effort into warning everyone about what he just foudn out, but they were so busy chanting and dancing. But Ralph could've told them to stop and try to maintain his leadership by telling them to come back to his group. For Piggy's death, it could've been prevented if Piggy was not near Rodger and he was near the forest and not the edge. But Piggy's might die later on because

I agree. If only Simon had washed up and maybe even called out before approaching the others. They would have known it was him. That would have been a great help if Simon had managed to tell them that there was no beast. Also, there a fault on the boys part for being so inappropriate. That wasn't the first time they had done that. And if Ralph wasn't so busing in fighting with Rodger, he could have kept an eye on Piggy.

Kevin Aiken- I think that both of their deaths could have been prevented several times over. If Jack and his hunters had never let the signal fire go out, they would have already left the island. If Piggy decided not to engage Jack, then he would have lived. If Simon had been more social and had not gone wondering around the island alone, he would have been alive.

Braxton Baynard- in my opinion, the death of Simon couldn't of been prevented. He was limping and he looked as if he were the beast, so the boys did what was natural and attempted and did kill Simon. However, the death of Piggy could of been prevented. If Ralph had seen the rock before it hit Piggy and warned him, then Piggy could of made an effort to dodge the path of the rock.

Reply to Braxton- Simon's death was more on a count of the boys not realizing the severity of their behavior and consequences may occur. It was nighttime, the boys got carried away and had a terrible misunderstanding. Piggy's death was just plain carelessness to me. Piggy didn't have his glasses with him and Ralph was supposed to protected him. Piggy's death was, in my opinion, one of the most unnecessary events in the story

Mollie Cole - I don't think Simon's death could have been prevented. The beast would come out of the savage boys eventually, and they subconsciously hated Simon's higher understanding. I think the savage boys would have found an excuse to kill Simon. Piggy's death was more preventable. If Piggy hadn't have been in the path of the rock, he may not have died.

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Leadership with the group

What would have happened if Jack was picked as leader?

Tiger- Based on the story, he would lead the pack more aggressively, not only killing pigs, but killing people

Khareem Leslie- If Jack was picked as a leader he would treat them unfairly and make everyone kill pigs, if this was the case then

Yes. I agree. On the point of killing the pigs

Mollie - Jack turned to hunting because he was hungry for power, and was jealus of the control that Ralph had over the group. If he had been elected at first, I think that he would have not had such a strong thirst for power, and therefore wouldn't have enjoyed hunting so much. In a way, he wouldn't have needed to hunt to feel strong because he was the leader. He may have listened to reason and tried to get the boys off the island.

Reply to Mollie- I agree with you. Jack had a very unstable personality. Jack couldn't been the leader if he wasn't so harsh and thought about his actions better.

Grace- Jack would have done what he does in the end, create a savage village with him having total control. He would allow the boys to hunt freely, and go around killing anyone who did not agree with him. Jack would not have cared for the littleuns and let them be in danger.

Minkyu- I think story wouldn't change by the fact that the leader is Jack. Simon, Piggy and Ralph was walking toward for rescued and maintaining as civilized person but Jack and hunters were not. when people have different opinion there is conflict and by that conflict, Ralph might just get out of that group and make another group with Piggy and Simon.

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What effect did the arrival of the naval officer have on the boys? Compare the behavior of the boys before and after they are rescued and explain the reason for change.

Jhania Smith- Being on the island so long, the boys also had lost hope of ever being saved. When the naval officer finally came to rescue them the mostly liking felt a sense of hope and survival. Before being rescued, the boys became almost like savages and didn't have the behavior of civilized people. Afterward, the were reminded that or their previous lives and how they really are.

Minkyu Song- Naval office was savior and person who brought civilization back.

Khareem Leslie- The naval officer effect on the boys before and after they where very different. Before they where rescued was that they where "dangerous" . After the boys saw the officers they became more civilized.

Respond to Minkyu - I agree that the naval officer brings traces of a civilized life back into the memories of the boys, so that they gained back some sense.

Respond to Khareem - I also agree that the naval officer had the power to bring back the civilized lifestyle that the boys used to live.

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How did the development of Ralph affect is actions and motives? How may the outcome of the book have changed if Ralph were a static/flat character?

Shad Huda- I believe the outcome of the book would be very different because Ralph may have not challenged Jack as much as he did towards the end of the book. With that being said, Jack may have killed Ralph before he tried to smoke Ralph out. That would mean the naval officer would never have come to rescue the group.

Kathleen- Ralph's gradual loss of innocence led to his maturity so that he concentrated on rescue. If Ralph had stayed carefree, they might have never been rescued.

Braxton Baynard- If Ralph was a static character, then jack probably would of been leader. This would result in more hunting than anything else. Jack probably wouldn't of came up with the idea of a signal fire so the boys would of probably been stranded for longer, and maybe not even rescued.

Respond to Kathleen - I agree, Ralph was first happy when he arrived at the island, but he became more serious as he saw the need to maintain a rescue plan.

Respond to Braxton - I can see how you would think that Jack would be leader. I feel that Ralph gained more aggression to stand up for himself, and without that aggression, Jack would've claimed leadership from him by force.

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Why did Percival Wemsy Madison search “in his head for an incantation that had faded clean away” and not find anything?

Mollie - He was very young and had been to far away from civilization to remember how to express himself well.

Reply- Kevin- I was thinking generally the same thing, that he had become too savage to remember sometihng that seemed so far away.

Olivia- Percival was young and innocent. He had not lived in civilization for a long time. When he arrived on the island, he became accustomed to it, and the lifestyle associated with it, and became more savage.

Reply-Kevin- I think you are close to what I thought was the answer, but I don't see from that answer why he could not remember something he had memorized from living in Britain.

Reply to Kevin's reply - Olivia- I think that Percival wanted to go home so much, that the only was for him to stay sane was to convince himself that he enjoyed living the on the island. He may have tried to forget life in Britain, so that it was less painful for him to live on the island. This caused him to change, and soon he became savage.

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What are some objects in the book that symbolize power, whether it be good or bad and why?
Tiger- The symbol of the story is represented by the conch. This object is meaningful to the story because the conch was able to gather people that were separated.
Olivia- There is a lot of symbolism in the novel. Symbols of civilization is the conch, and the British Naval officer. A symbolism of evil, is the "Lord of the Flies".

Reply-Braxton- I like your answer. I never really thought of the British Naval officer as a part of Lord of the Fly's many different symbiotic items .

Kathleen- Both the conch and specs symbolize power because whoever has the two objects is at an advantage.

Mollie Cole - The conch, facepaint and glasses are all symbols of power. They are good or bad depending on

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Persuasion

What kind of persuasion was used when Jack held his own feast, and how was it used?

Dominique Jeanty - Jack persuaded everyone to come to his tribe by almost "bribing" them with meat, and with painting his face. Everyone wanted meat because they were tired of fruit, and they knew that Ralph couldn't hunt like Jack could. For the face painting, he was trying to show that people ca have "fun" in his tribe.

Reply-Kevin- What kind of persuasion is that, such as what is Jack appealing to? That's how I thought of the question as being phrased. I did not think of the face painting, that's a good point.

Shad Huda- He used the feast as a way to get the other group's attention and show that he will be able to supply them with food other than the fruit they have been eating for the past few months. This attracts the group and they decide to join him instead of staying with Ralph.

Reply-Kevin-What kind of persuasion is that? (Possible answers might be Ethos, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, the kind of persuasion used in advertising, etc) Is using the feast a kind of persuasion to convince people to come to his feast? When I wrote the question I did not think of it as what the feast was supposed to persaude people to do, but how he persuaded people to come to the feast in the first place.

Braxton Baynard- The first thing on most of the boys minds was food. By bringing the boys food, it convened all of them to go and eat. Even Ralph and Piggy were contemplating whether to go are not and their hunger took over.

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Did Golding manipulate

the tone of the story to have you favor and specific person?

Alhad - I believe that Golding did manipulate the story in order for us to favor Jack over Ralph by showing Jack's changing behavior to savagery, but I also think that the story would have gone the same way even if the story wasn't manipulated, because the events would have still been similar.

Reply-Braxton- I think that the author was trying make us favor Ralph instead of jack. Because of jacks mean nature and always putting Ralph down caused you to feel sorry for Ralph and favor him.

Kathleen- I think Golding manipulated the tone a little to make the reader favor Ralph more than Piggy. Although Ralph's behavior could have come across as mean or rude, the author writes so that the reader favors Ralph.

Reply-Braxton- I never thought about it between Ralph and Piggy. I always thought of it as a comparison between Jack and Ralph.

Minkyu= i agree with Kathleen, Ralph was a leader, and he's the one who survived with maintained as civilized person. but Piggy and Simon died by trying to maintain themselves.

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Explain why Ralph and Piggy might have failed to maintain law and order within  the group of boys. What is different about the current human society that prevents it from falling into uncivilized disorder?

Tiger- Ralph and Piggy was not a strong leader, they were lighthearted, which resulted in separation from the group

Kathleen Park- Ralph and Piggy failed to control the group because they lacked authority and number. On the other hand, current society has more power.

Grace- Ralph and Piggy failed to control the group because nobody took Piggy seriously because of his appearances. The littleuns refused to behave, and did not even follow their own rules that they'd created.

Respond to Tiger - I disagree with saying that Ralph was lighthearted. He held meetings to address the rules he thought was right, and lead the group of boys to his beliefs, even if others disagreed.

Respond to Grace - I agree with your post.

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In the Panchatantra, a collection of Indian fables and folk tales, there is the story of the loyal mongoose that saves the life of a baby by killing a King Cobra trying to eat the baby. However, when the mother finds the mongoose with a bloody mouth with her baby nowhere to be seen, she kills the mongoose in a rage, only to find the dead snake right next to her baby’s little bed, with the baby fast asleep.
Is there a relation, and if so, how does a blind action such as in this story relate to the killing of Simon on the beach?

Alexandra Marlette- The entire tribe was in such a frenzy about the beast that like the woman in your story they killed Simon out of fear of the beast. Not even alowing themselves a sliver relization that the fiugure was Simon not the beast.

This is exactly how i interpreted this question, since rash actions have such profound effects.

Braxton Baynard- It relates to Simon's death because in the Panchatantra mongoose story, the mother killed without knowing. just like in Lord of the Fly's. The boys killed Simon without knowing who or what it was. They just jumped to the conclusion that it was the beast and made a terrible mistake

Soujanya- I read that Panchatantra fable and I believe that it relates to Simon being killed. The boys were already in a reenactment of the hunting frenzy and they were in a hyperactive killing mode. Since they had already turned to savages by this point, there was nothing more they wanted to do than kill something. Then, when Simon came staggering onto the beach yelling about the beast and how it didn't exist, the boys just heard the world beast, surrounded Simon, and killed him without even processing what they had done. This relates to the mongoose story because the mom, like the boys, didn't take the time to think about all of the consequences of what may have happened.

I thought this as well, and the words that Simon uttered about beast can also be considered like the blood in the mongoose's mouth which triggered all the actions.

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Jack's feelings

How do you think Jack felt when the officer showed up on the beach? Do you think he was relieved or angry?

Mollie Cole- I think that because he had truly become so savage, he would have been angry the officer ruined their "fun".

Elias reply to Mollie- I agree, i think that Jack really wanted to kill Ralph and that nothing would stop him. But when the officer showed up he probably felt intimidated.

Alexandra Malette- I think he would have become angry and then gone into shock when he realizes the full extent of what he and the others have done on the island. In reality he committed murder, became a dictator, assisted in murder, hurt many of the other boys and tried to brutally kill Ralph. Once (if he ever) returns to his senses he will have a lot internal conflict.

Elias Murcia reply to Alexandra- I haven't thought about that, I didn't think Jack ever will come to his senses. It's going to take a lot of counseling though

Kevin- I think he would have suddenly felt very panicked as he realized what he had done has consequences.

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Technology Used

What was the most important piece of technology the boys had for survival, and why was it more important than the other pieces of technology the boys had?

Tiger- They had hunting knife and piggy's glasses. Glasses were used to build a fire and hunting knife was used for hunting.

Reply-Kevin- But which was more important, and why? Do you think they could have survived without one or the other? I disagree with them both being of the same importance.

Alhad - Their two most important items were the spears they used for hunting pigs, and Piggy's glasses for the fire. These were the most important, since the spears provided for finding food to survive, and the glasses were the method for lighting the rescue signal fires.

Reply-Kevin- Which one of the two was the more important one? I disagree with them both being of the same importance.

Shad Huda- The most important piece of technology for the boys was Piggy's specs. Without them, the boys would never be able to build a fire with the knowledge they had.

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IF Simon had died while he was still at the lord

of the flies, do you think that Ralph and Piggy would have went looking for him?

Grace Kim- As they know that Simon likes being alone, if he hadn't come home for days, they would more likely assume that he had died, rather than to look for him. When the littleun with the mark on his face disappeared, they didn't go look for him at all, so the same would be assumed for Simon

Dominique Jeanty - I don't think so. They liked Simon, but they would be too afraid to go looking in the forest where they thought the beast still was. Maybe Jack would have been brave enough to do it if he cared.

Reply to Dominique- Khareem's Responce- I think they would have went looking for him. Remeber that Ralph already knew where the beast was becuse he went up to the mountain with Jack.

Alhad - I believe that at some point Ralph and Piggy would have gone to search, as in the story one of the two showed their concern for where the boy was, and also they would have needed him since he would have increased Ralph's group in "exile." Simon, like Piggy, was a rational thinker and he even told Ralph that , "he would be alright." This would cause Ralph to wonder what happened to Simon

Reply to Alhad-Khareem's Response- I agree with you. Because they did the same thing with the guy with the birthmark on the side of his neck/face

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Were Ralph not one of the kids stranded on the island, what do you think would have happened instead of what did?

Kathleen Park- Without Jack, the kids would have probably chose Jack as the chief. Consequently, they would have not focused on being rescued and rather spent most of their time finding meat.

Alhad - I think that Piggy would have been most affected. Ralph in the book was sort of Piggy's protection, but if Jack were the only man, he would have done who knows what with Piggy, and as he would have become a Savage, he may have hunted Piggy like he did with Ralph. He also would not have thought of the rescue fire either.

Minkyu- I think Piggy and Simon would still try to maintain themselves as civilized but rest of them would turned into savages with Jack. Jack didn't even care about rules he had to keep nor jobs that he had to do. if Jack was leading the group from the first, It would've been cruel novel

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If Ralph had died instead of Piggy, what would P iggy do and

how would he react?

Dominique Jeanty - If Ralph died, then Piggy would have probably died very soon afterwards. Ralph was kind of like Piggy's bodyguard. He made fun of him at times, but he made sure he didn't get hurt. Ralph protected Piggy from Jack and the other boys, and if he died, Piggy would have either died too ot

Tiger- If Ralph had died, piggy would be covering Ralph's body and taking care of him because Ralph helped Piggy out a lot in the story

Reply-Braxton- Why would Piggy take care of the dead body? I know Ralph was like his protector, but i doubt piggy would be brave enough to get the body and protect it.

Shad Huda- I think if Ralph died instead of Piggy, he may have joined Jack's group out off fear. He also may have tried to run, but with account of his asthma and weight, he probably wound not have gone to far without Jack and his group finding and killing him.

Reply-Braxton- I agree with your answer. Piggy would of just joined the tribe because he couldn't make it on his own.

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Behavior of the boys

Throughout the course of the story, why is
it that the boys’ personality and behavior change so dramatically? Would you
say that their experiences have made them grow up a little?

Shad Huda- I believe the fact that they are alone and without many resources, their behavior turned towards more on instinct rather than what is right. I also believed they have grown more that they would have naturally because they were given more responisibilities. That includes for themselves and others around them.

Yes. You have a point. Anyone that must survive, themselves, in any situation such as this one would turn to the only thing that would be keeping them alive- their instincts. Afterward, I do believe that they grew up and learned from their mistakes and from their time on the island.

Alhad - The boys behavior changed dramatically mainly because of their age. At the age of 12, how much is a child going to think about his actions, unless he is a born thinker like Piggy? The fact that they were immature showed that they could not handle their problems appropriately. This might have made them grow up by realizing what their mistakes may have been and

Yes. Age also plays as a factor in the maturity of them all. But also it showed that they were still at an age they they couldn't handle thing in the right sort of way.

Alexandra Marlette- I think that because they feel a sense of "freedom" with the leadership of jack, and Jack's relapse in to primal behavior that the boys followed suit.

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What would happen if Jack died before he created his own tribe? Would Roger take his place or do you think he would have still kept following Ralph?

Elias- I don't think Roger would have taken Jack's place, he is a savage but he is not a leader. Rodger would have probably continued to follow Ralph and would simply take his anger out on the pigs.

I agree with your comment. This was exactly what I thought when i wrote this question! Roger was always a follower from the start and he didn't have the potential to lead others. But he has his own opinion on hunting and that lead to him being savage.

Dominique Jeanty - Roger changed a lot in the story, and if Jack had died, I belive Roger would have created his own tribe, but closer to the end of the story when he became more savage. Roger was in my opinion the most sadistic of them all, and he most likely wouldn't have been able to stay under Ralph's control.

That is a creative way of thinking because I didn't think of this when I was writing the question. I can agree that Roger was cruel and even though he was a follower I don't think it would've stopped him from killing others. But since Ralph was a leader, it could've changed his mindset by of wanting to kill someone. Maybe it could've been mainted if he followed Ralph.

Grace- Although Roger changed throughout the story, since the beginning of the book, he had shown hints of cruelty and evil. In the end, although Jack led the savages, Roger did most of the killing, and basically symbolized almost pure evil. Had Jack died in the beginning, these feelings would have overcome Roger, and he would have broken off of the group earlier, as soon as he made some followers.

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1)Author used different words to describe
feelings, emotions, appearance. What persuasion method does this reference? 1)
Pathos2) Logos
3) Ethos
4) All of the Above

Kathleen Park- The author used pathos when describing the death of Simon.

Olivia- The author used all of these methods when writing. When Simon, and Piggy were killed, he used pathos and ethos. When Ralph was trying to tell the boys why a signal fire was important, he used logos. When they boys were hunting, he used pathos.

Alhad - I think the author uses all three of these methods to detail the story. An example of Ethos was when Piggy said to ask back for his glasses from Jack because it was what was right. Logos was shown when Simon finally found the beast and realized it was a "mechanical Parody" and finally Pathos was shown when Ralph cries next to the officer "to the end of innocence" and for the death of Piggy.

Reply to Alhad- I totally agree with your answers and your reasonings.

Reply to Kathleen- I also agree with your answer because author's description

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How did

Piggy help Ralph stay civilized? When Piggy died how did that affect Ralph's thoughts?

Jeffery Yang - Piggy had ideas of a civilized society, and based his actions off of law and order . When he died, Ralph realized he had no one to ask for advice, and found it harder to stand for his beliefs.

Alhad - Piggy always gave his advice, insight, and rationales for what he thought was right, and by this he guided Ralph to stay on the path of concentration to find method of rescue. when Piggy died though, Ralph was forced to take the matter into his own hands, and while Piggy was a thinker, Ralph was like a risk taker. He came back to Samneric for help, and then on the run

Kathleen- Piggy kept Ralph on track. He provided the logical reasoning that Ralph lacked. Ralph lost some hope of rescue without Piggy to help keep him clear-headed.

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The conch was mentioned since the beginning of the book. What

was the conch a symbol of and how do you know?

Jeffery Yang - The conch symbolized a democratic government system. Whoever bore the conch was given temporary powers to speak in a meeting, and the conch was passed around everyone. When Jack took power of the boys, the conch was destroyed, symbolizing the fall of the democracy.

Olivia- The conch is symbolic of power, authority, government, and civilization. One can tell, because the boys use the conch to call for meetings. Additionally, whoever is holding the conch is the only one who is permitted to speak. Additionally, the boys behave in a more civil mannner when they are around the conch.

Tiger- I sort of disagree because it didn't represent power after Jack conquered most of the tribes. Jack didn't use the conch, although he was a greedy savage, he still didn't use the conch to take control.

Reply to Jeffery- I completely agree with every thing you stated. The conch symbolizing democracy was one of the key things I thought about after writing the question.
Reply to Olivia- I also completely agree with your post. The fact that they behave more in civil manner was also a great idea that I have not thought about.

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What would happen if Ralph died before Piggy and Simon already died, what would happen to Piggy after Jack took his glasses. Since Piggy can’t see without his glasses, how could have Piggy retrieved his glasses?

Mollie - I think that Piggy would have gone to Jack and asked for them back, as was his original plan, but obviously he wouldn't have gotten them back. I don't think he would have had the smarts or guts to try to steal them back without another big'un on his side. He would have never gotten them back.

Reply to Mollie- Khareem's Response- But how would have Piggy gotten his glasses back if he can't see.

Kathi Tran- If Piggy was left handicapped and Ralph wasn't there to stand up for him to get his glasses back from Jack, then I would think that Piggy could've used his intelligence and compose a plan to get his glasses without having the tribe notice him. But on the other hand, Piggy still didn't develop a habit to defend himself without relying on Ralph. I agree with Mollie's answer that he wouldn't have the will to get them back without having Jack's tribe hurting him.

Reply to Kathi- Khareem's Response- If Piggy couldn't have seen I don't think he couldn't have retrieved his glasses since he was technically blind.

Tiger- If Ralph had died first, I think Jack's followers will regret what they did and Piggy would be furious to get his glasses back. He would just walk up to them, push them out of the way, straight to his glasses

Soujanya- I don't think Piggy would have gone to get his glasses because he couldn't see 3 inches in front of him without them. He would have probably have just went into hiding and have mourned the loss of Ralph and Simon. Then, if the hunters had found him, he would have just begged for them to give him his glasses and then leave them alone.

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At the

last part of the story, kids see naval officer and become normal boys from savage, why did they turn back to normal boys even if they just saw him, and what does naval officer most properly refers in modern society?

Soujanya- Seeing the naval officer dressed in his uniform and all clean reminded them of how they were before, all neat and civilized. The naval officer represents the good in mankind and the factors of life that brings people back from depression or other mental cases. After the boys saw the naval officer, they were relieved that they wouldn't have to act like grown-ups anymore, that there was a man to take care of them now.

I also thought that naval office was some-kind of savior to them, Ralph was only one who maintained as modernized person, but rest of them turned into savages except Sam and Eric,so i think naval officer is kind of savior or the man who brought civilization back. I agree with you.

Alhad - The boys become back to normal because the grown-up is a symbol of restriction and control in society, in our modern world the grownup in story is like the laws that control our behavior.

Kathi Tran- The Naval officer was the first adult they have seen in weeks or even months. I beileve that when the officer appeared and took them back into society they felt safe and they didn't have to worry about fighitng for fire and authority.  I think the Naval officer can symoblize the police force, army, and basically the people who risk their lives everyday to protect this country because they prevent us from people who can potentially harm others.

I agree with your first part of opinion where it says, he was adult who made kids feel safe, but eventually, he didn't force anyone to stop fighting each other, he was there and they just saw him, stopped hunting and cried. I think officer is more likely to Soujanya's opinion

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Who does Jack represent in modern society?

Braxton Baynard- Jack would probably represent a dictator of some sort. a person who leads by fear. People such as Fidel Castro and Kim Jong Il. They lead their countries with fear and will most likely kill anyone who gets in he their way, just like Jack.

Reply to Braxton- I agree with a dictator. I would also say that Hitler would have similar characteristics with Jack.

Alexandra Marlette- Jack symbolizes how when given a push out of the modern world many principles we hold dear get tossed out the window.

Kathi Tran- Jack could've represented the theives and the crooks in our society becaues he didn't want to listen to any rules. He wanted to control everything by himself and have the power to order people to his commands.

Reply to Kathi- I didn't think of it that way but I agree with you. Both Jack and crooks display evil.

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1)Analyze the plot in order from the beginning to
the end.
a)They have arrived at the island.

b)They went hunting.
c)They were rescued by a British officer.

d)Ralph called assembly.

e)Jack formed a group for hunters.
f)Ralph was chased by the hunters.
Soujanya- a, d, e, b, f, c

Elias Murcia- Sorry but I don't really see how some one can have different oppinions on this question so what is the point of replying unless someone gets it wrong and you can say you disagree. (by the way its a,d,e,b,f,c)

Khareem Leslie- A,d.e,f,c .

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If the naval officer hadn't come to rescue the boys, what would happen to them?

Grace- As Jack turned everyone against Ralph, Ralph would have either starved to death, or killed by the savages. With Ralph out of the way, the boys are free to be as savage as they like, thus they will spend all their time living as savages. Whenever conflicts occur, someone is bound to die, so in the end, they will all kill each other off.

Relpy to Grace - I agree with that. I thought that Ralph would be killed too, and eventually they would all kill each other off.

Kathi Tran- If the naval officer hadn't come to resure the boys then I bileved Ralph would've been outnumbered by the number of Jack's tribe because they were already on the hunt to kill him. Jack's group would become even more savage and I think they would eventurally kill one another until on person was left standing. Once that person is isolated from people then he could've even become mentally unstable and kill himself or die from hunger.

Reply to Kathi - I never thought about the idea of someone killing themself, but now that you mention it, it could be possible.

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Jack uses the beast

How did Jack use the beast to his advantage?

Grace- As fear is a strong emotion, he uses the beast to manipulate the boys of the island in his thirst for power. Using this, the boys fear the beast and believe that Jack may know the way to free them from fear, thus going over to his side.

Elias reply to Grace- I was thinking more or less the same thing. I thought that Jack would use the beast to put fear into the others but would then try to point out how he is the strongest one in the tribe and he would be the only one able to protect them, therefore the kids would follow him.

Kevin - I think Jack used the beast to convince people to stay with him and his hunters. If they were not scared of being killed by the beast then they would not have stuck close to the group for protection. Jack knew this.

Elias Reply to Kevin- I agree that Jack was smart enough to know that people would only stay with him for protection. So he had to make sure there was something to protect from.

Dominique Jeanty - Jack uses the beast as an advantage by showing bravery. Jack was brave enough to go find the beast, while Ralph tried to run away because he was afraid. No one wants a scared leader that fears things, they want a brave leader that can protect them when they need to be.

Elias reply to Dominique- Ralph din't exactly run away. Ralph went on the expedition with Jack but Jack could sense the fear and uneasiness in him.

Reply to Elias - I said thay Ralph tried to run away, not that he did. He suggested that they go back because he was scared, and Jack wasn't (if he was then he sure did a good job of hiding it)

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Were Simon not murdered, do you think the savagery of mankind would have tainted him? Why or why not, and if so, to what degree?

Mollie - No. Simon was one of the few boys left that had not been tainted. He was also very comfortable on his own, and had an elevated understanding of what was going on. I think he would have been ableto see what he was becoming, and would have left the group and lived on his own before becoming a savage like Jack.

Tiger- He wouldn't have been touched or disturbed by anyone because he is a loner and live his own live without anyone

Jeffery Yang - Simon understands the savagery of mankind, and isolates himself from it. However, Jack would've forced everyone under his power. Since the boys are restricted to an island, Simon would've eventually either fell to Jack's rule, or died from resisting.

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If Jack had been elected leader in the very beginning, would that have changed the island? Would the boys have turned savage more quickly, or would have Jack not felt the desperate need for power and control and would have listened to reason? Summarize your opinion.

Braxton Baynard- I think that if jack was elected leader then the boys would of become more savage.

Grace- From the beginning, the author had shown that Jack seemed to have a savage feelings around him. As the author of the story showed that the "beast" is in every man, Jack would not have had been able to resist this, and turned the boys savage more quickly.

Reply to Grace - Mollie - This is a very good point. But, my argument to this is that, yes, the beast does live inside everyone. But, when they were living their regular civilized lives, it never came out. The only reason it came out was because Jack was desperate for control, and by using the beast he could exert control over the boys. If he had power from the beginning, he wouldn't have needed to take control, and the beast would have been just as contained as it had been in their regular life.

Dominique Jeanty - If Jack were elected leader, then everyone would have gotten savage sooner. With Ralph as leader, he attempted to keep eveything civilized, with rules and appointing people jobs, and he was only concerned about them being rescued. Jack, with his obsession of hunting, would probably make everyone participate in the hunting, or something of the sort, and he would not have thought twice about being rescued.

Reply to Dominique - Mollie - As with Grace, I disagree. Jack did not develop his obsession for hunting until he realized the power and control it gave him. If he had that control from the beginning, he wouldn't have needed to hunt as an alternate source of the feeling of power. But, another thing I just thought of, if Jack was in control, he wouldn't have needed to hunt for power. But, Ralph may have been just as desparate for control, and he would have turned to hunting and would have fallen into savagery.

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The
author ended with Ralph being chased and rescued by a British naval officer
rescued him. Investigate possible reasons why the author decided to end the
book this way. Make sure to include vivid evidence from the book to support
your answer.
Jeffery Yang - Had the British naval officer not arrived, then Ralph would've inevitably died. If all of the "civilization" on the island died, then Golding wouldn't have had an opportunity to include a rescue for the boys.

Reply to Jeffery- I agree with your answer because author wouldn't have anything else to

Kathi Tran- The author could've ended the book by having a Naval officer rescure them because the officer represented the police men in society and the adults. The police and other adults help society by saving peole from things that could hurt them. According to the book, they fought for power and started to fight with one another and no one was there to stop them from becoming savage.

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Simon was portrayed a very innocent person in the book and
did not seem to participate in hunting. His death marked the end of something
we have built up from day one of our existence. What is it and why do you think
so?

Soujanya- His death marked the end of humanity that we have built from day one of our existence. When Jack and the hunters killed Simon, they showed the world that they lost their humanity, and they have turned into savages. It isn't in human nature to kill innocent people and then make excuses about why you killed them.

Reply to Soujanya- Your statement is a very good way to summarize what is meant by Simon's death. I also believed that after Simon's death, everything that was innocent within the group was gone.

Kevin- I think his death marked the end of being civilized, and honoring human life. I think once they killed Simon, it lowered their respect for human life, making it feel easier for them to kill more people.

Reply to Kevin- Civilization is one of the key words I was thinking about when I wrote the question. On the other hand, I don't agree with the fact that his death made it easier for them to kill someone
Soujanya: I disagree with Shad but I agree with Kevin. After the boys killed Simon, it made it easier to kill the others. Roger didn't think twice before killing Piggy. Jack didn't think twice about running towards Ralph with a spear. Jack also didn't think twice about chasing after Ralph with fire and his hunters.

Reply to Soujanya- I think that Jack wanted to kill Ralph in any way possible was because he was very angry with Ralph, and his rage made his think of different ways to kill him. That dosen't mean he found it easier to kill him.

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How do the id, ego, and super ego of each character play a part in the story?

Mollie - Id plays a huge part in the story. Jack's whole decline into savagery is a result of id. The beast is his id, it is the primal instinct of fear and only knowing how to survive by killing. Ego is when Jack and Ralph clash and fight for control, because of their egos they both want to be the best. Simon's superego gives him an elevated understanding of what is going on, and allows him to see that what they are turning into is human nature and not specific to just the boys. His superego is also what lead to when the Lord of the Flies talked to him.

Olivia- The character's view of themselves has a significant impact on the story. For example, Simon is very humble, and never attempts to overthrow one of the leaders. Additionally, Jack's confidence causes him to attempt to impeach Ralph. No one agrees, so Jack chooses to leave, and start his own tribe.

I don't understand as to how the Id, Ego, and Superego play a part in your answer.

Alhad - The id of people like Jack tells him to hunt and find food, while for Piggy and Ralph it was to find a way of rescue. the ego was shown when Ralph had to decide whether to hide, climb, or breakthrough the hunters. The Super Ego was exhibited when Roger was throwing rocks at Henry, "aiming to miss" because his actions were still being affected by society.

I agree with your post. I think that Id, Superego, and Ego play a huge part in the book as each character demonstrates these psychological factors.

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Do you think that it was correct for Jack and the hunters to leave the signal fire attended in order to go chase after a pig? Predict when the boys may have been rescued if Jack and the hunters hadn't let the signal fire go out.

Mollie - No. Meat may have been immediately important, but getting rescued would have been much more beneficial in the long term. They could have left someone behind to tend the fire, or waited for meat until they were sure the fire wouldn't have gone out. If they had not left the fire go out, they might have been seen by that ship. Or, if the fire hadn't gone out, the tensions between Ralph and Jack would have never escalated, and they would have worked together and probably gotten rescued earlier.

Reply to Millie- I agree with your answer. However, when I wrote the question, I never thought about how the tension between Ralph and Jack wouldn't have escalated. I only thought of the ship part.

Alexandra Marlette- I believe they would have been rescued earlier and the death's of Simon and Piggy would have been avoided. The Hunter's pursuit of the pig was the

Reply to Alexandra- I agree with your post but that was not what I was thinking when I typed the question. I was thinking more about how they would have been rescued when that ship passed by. I didn't really think about their deaths, because that wasn't relevant to the question.

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What do you think the Lord of the Flies symbolizes?

Elias Murcia- I think that it symbolized partially fear. Jack had put it there as an offering to the beast out of his own fear that it might be real.

Reply to Elias- I agree.

Elias Reply to reply- thank you for going into full in depth details on why you agree.

Reply to Elia's reply- Your welcome. The pig's head did resemble the fear that they boys had of the beast.

Elias Reply to the Reply to Elias- Well yeah but I wanted to know your reasoning for why you think that

Braxton Baynard- I think it symbolized power and fear. The boys were scared of something that was pretty much non-existent. This fear had power over the boys by changing the way they lived and what they did.

Alexandra Marlette - The Lord of the Flies symbolizes pure evil and corruption because not very far after his interaction with the Lord of the Flies, Simon is killed by the boys who have become corrupted by the power of oppresion and so called "freedom"

Reply to Alexandra- I agree because the Lord of the Flies' words demonstrate some evil traits.

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What is being symbolized at the end of the book when the author says that the naval officer saw Jack as a “little kid that just had war paint on his face”?
Mollie - The fact that the officer said that he was just a little kid means that the officer is as innocent as the boys were when they landed. He didn't see that the boys had turned to savages and let their primal instincts take over. Jack was no longer a kid, let alone a little kid playing games.

Reply to Mollie- I disagree with your answer because I thought it was jack who was the innocent one. I think that Jack really hadn't turned into a savage but that he was pretending to so that he seemed strong. During the course of the book, Jack is portrayed as strong, evil, vicious, etc. However, when the officer came, the author shows us Jack for who he really is, a little boy that was just playing games in order to feel powerful.

ALEXANDRA MARLETTE- I agree with Mollie, the officer does not realize what has taken place on the island, the boys killed their own and fell in to primal order/anarchy so he is in a sense as innocent as the boys when they arrived on the island.

Reply to Alexandra- I disagree with your answer because Jack really is an innocent kid. I don't think he fell to savagery, just that he wanted to feel like a savage. He didn't paint his face because he was a savage. he painted his face to feel like a savage. I still think he was innocent at heart though and that he just wanted to feel powerful.

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William Golding wrote the book using only boys because boys would eventually show their true primitive instincts. Would the book have been the same if he wrote using only girls? Choose one scene and briefly explain how it would have been different if there were only girls. Olivia- The book would be much different had William Golding wrote the book, and used girls. For example, during the first scene, it is explained that the boys were involved in a plane crash, and they had all come from a millitary school. At that point in time, it was considered improper for girls to attend military school. The girls would have not been on the plane to begin with, and would not have landed on the island.

Reply to Olivia - Mollie - Although this is true, when I wrote the question I intended it to mean what would have happened after they landed on the island, regardless of how they arrived there.

Dominique Jeanty - The book would be very different, because most young girls have a different way of thinking than boys. For example, in the scene where Simon was killed, I don't believe the girls would have gone as far as to kill him. Yes, they would have been slightly savage as well, but not up to the point where they "wouldn't recognize" that Simon was a person and kill him. Who knows, maybe they would have even been afraid to kill something in the first place.

Reply to Dominique - Mollie - Yes, I agree. In those times, boys were just little boys but little girls were always considered as and expected to act as ladies. I don't think they would have had the know-how or guts to kill the first pig, and would never have really had the desire to. Since the rush of power brought on by hunting is what turned Jack and his boys savage, girls would definitely not felt powerful hunting, so they most likely wouldn't have changed.

Kathleen- Girls would not have turned so uncivilized as Jack and his hunters did. They might not have turned so savage as to kill another human. The scene of killing Piggy by rolling boulders would not have occurred because of lack of strength and other reasons.

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Would things have been any different if there was an adult on the island?

Kathleen Park- If there was an adult on the island, things might have been more organized. The group would have been unified.

Soujanya- If there was an adult on the island, he would have kept the boys busy doing more efficient things than hunting and playing all day. He also would have known how to build better shelters and he could have convinced the boys that there was no beast on the island. Also, if there was an adult on the island, Simon, Piggy, and the littlun who saw the beast wouldn't have died. The adult would have preserved humanity in the boys so that Simon and Piggy wouldn't have died. he also would have known how to keep the signal fire in control so hat the littlun wouldn't have died becuase of the spread fire.

Reply to Soujanya - I think that it would depend on the type of person it is. You can't really just assume that the adult would be responsible enough. It also might depend on age as well. Also, he might not have had control over the deaths because the boys would eventally still go savage and probably stop listening to the adult like they stopped listening to Ralph.

Soujanya- The boys would have respected an adult more than Ralph. Ralph was too scared to set the boys straight half the time. Also, Jack asked at the beginning if there was an adult around, which meant that he would have felt more secure with an adult around.

Braxton Baynard- If an adult was on the island, there would of defiantly been more control. The boys probably wouldn't have gone savage as quick and there would of been less deaths and probably more food. An adult would of brought a scene of security and protection so talk of the beast would probably die down. An adult also would probably know more about survival than 12 year old boys, so having an adult would probably allow the boys to have more food.

Reply to Braxton - I agree that the boys might not have gone savage as quickly as they did in the book. However, the deaths might not have been changed, but it depends on the maturity of the adult. And maybe the littluns would have been more comforted with an adult figure there and not have as many nightmares about the beast.

Grace- If there was an Adult on the island, there may or may not be much of a difference, depending on who the person is. Had the adult been organized and controlling, the savagry and wars may not have occured. Because the adult will be older, bigger, and the boys are used to following adults' directions, he or she would have ultimately kept a good organized system going, allowing the boys to be rescued more early on in the book.

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Piggy's Death

What is the symbolism of piggy's death at the hands of Roger?

Jeffery Yang - Piggy was the most intellectual of the group of boys, and portrayed the most resemblance to an adult. When he died, it showed how his intellect was overpowered by savagery. It symbolized the fall of law and order, and the rise of chaos and disorder.

Alexandra Marlette-To Jeffery: I like your take on how when Piggy died so did the last of law and order, because by himself Ralph could not uphold law and order. Especially when he him self had succumbed to lawlessness.

Alex Vianey- Piggy's death alone did not symbolize anything new, but instead furthered its progress. What I mean by this is that Piggy's death did definitely show the break down of all society and the savagery replacing it, but by that late in the story, that had already been shown multiple times, starting with the paint on Jack's face. Piggy's death just showed that there really was no going back to normal for a lot of the boys as they have simply gone too savage and their minds have been tainted too deeply with savagery for them to think logically and civilized.

Alexandra Marlette-To Alex: I disagree Piggy was the symbol of Law and order when he is killed, Anarchy is released and Jack's tribe takes over.

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After reading Beowulf and Lord of the Flies, do you think that some of the characters match up? Why or Why not?

Soujanya- I think Jack was a little like Unferth because Unferth was jealous of Beowulf the way Jack was jealous of Ralph. Unferth and Jack both had a strong ego and they paid dearly for it at some part of the story. Unferth was made a fool by Beowulf and Jack was originally rejected as the leader of the boys.

Reply to Soujanya- Khareem's Responce I totally agree with what you are saying. In my mind when I was written this I was just looking at the main characters Ralph and Beowulf. This story seems like it could have been another type of beowulf story because in both of the stories there are "beast".

Shad Huda- I believe Ralph is somewhat like Beowulf, not just because he is the main charater, but because he seems to try to do things he believes should be done. Beowulf thinks he should fight Grendel with bare hands and Ralph thinks a signal fire and shelter were more important than hunting.

Reply to Shad- Khareem's Response- I totally agree with you shad, that's like I said when I responded to Soujanya's post.

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How can you predict the outcome of the story if Piggy or Simon weren't the ones to die? What would happen if Ralph or Samneric were in Piggy's and Simon's place during the time they died?

Jeffery Yang - Had Ralph died when Jack took power, then everyone else would've eventually succumbed to the instinct to act wild. Ralph has the courage to stand up for his ideals, and he has the strength to remain civil when everything else falls into order. Piggy and Simon understand the importance of a civilized society, but lack the aggressiveness of Ralph to express their beliefs.

Yes, this was what I beileved as well because even though Piggy and the ones that wanted to be civil, didn't have the potential of being the one to lead others. So they would've followed Jack and become savage all together. Though, I think some of them still beileved in becoming civil, and I guess they might have just bottled it inside.

Alex Vianey- If Ralph and Samneric were in Piggy's and Simon's places, the sequence of events would not have been much different than what did occur. This is because, by the time those two characters died, it was already the point of no return for the rest of the tribe as they by that point had all gone savage. By that time, it was far too late in the story for nobody, not even Ralph, to do any good in convincing Jack and his group to realize their mistakes, and if Piggy and Simon had lived instead of him, the same would have happened, just slightly quicker. Overall, the impact is very small on who would have died simply because of when it happened.

I agree with your point as well. The death of Simon and Piggy were already far into the plot and there weren't much time for a change. The rapid

Khareem Leslie- The outcome of the story would have been different in my opinioin. The reason behind that his because it would still end up with the same amount of people people but the leader would have been gone.

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Conch Symbolism

What is the conch symbolic of in the book? How does it influence the behavioral patterns of some of the boys?

Soujanya- The conch symbolizes authority and power in this "society" of boys on the island. It influenced Jack to hate Ralph since Ralph was the one that blew the conch. Since Ralph blew the conch, he was voted as the chief and that made Jack really jealous because he thought he should be chief.

Reply to Soujanya -Olivia - I agree with your statement. The conch was a symbol of power and authority. Since Ralph was the one who gathered all the boys, naturally, he would be voted leader. Jack wanted to be leader, causing Jack to dislike Ralph.

Kathi Tran- The conch can symbolize leadership and power because  the person who holds it has the right to talk while other are not allowed to interrupt. When the chosen leader blew on the conch then they triggered the boys letting them know that there's a problem on the island and they should all work together to fix it. I think this influenced the behavior of the boys because this would let them have someone to follow and they would rely on a leader to lead them back home.

Reply to Kathi - Olivia - That is exactly what I thought. Since Ralph was the first person to find the conch, it would be more likely for him to be chosen as leader. This causes a power struggle between Jack and Ralph.

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When
Jack steals Piggy’s specs, do you believe that was the moment when Jack is no
longer civilized, or do you believe he lost his sense of civilization long
before that?
Kathleen Park- I would say that he lost his civilization ever since he started wearing paint on his face.

Alex Vianey- By the time Piggy's specs were stolen, Jack had already been savage to a degree, but after that event occurred, that was a real turning point in Jack's nature. I believe what happened is that once Jack stole Piggy's glasses, that was when Jack realized he had all the power on the island to do whatever he wanted, which allowed him to really abuse his savagery and act how he wanted.

Reply to Kathleen Park- I sort of disagree with your statement, as when paint on his face could be a way to show that he was stil a kid inside rather than a grown hunter.
Reply to Shad's reply- However, Jack began to wear the paint on his face so that he could act uncivilized and not feel guilty about it. Wearing the paint was his way of covering his conscience.

Reply to Alex Vianey- I completely agree with your statement. Your sentence about Jack realizing that he has a lot of power is exactly what I was thinking about when I worte this question.

Dominique Jeanty - I believe that Jack lost his civilization when he realized he was too afraid to kill the pig at first. That is when he started to become obsessed with hunting. He even left the fire to go and hunt a single pig. They could have hunted a pig anytime after that, but when he left his only hope of rscue to go kill a pig, is when I knew he had lost it.

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Crushed conch symbolism

What symbolism did the conch shell shattering have? What could it represent in our society?

Kevin Aiken- I think the crushed conch represented the final destruction of a civilized society. In our society I think it would represent, for example, when a political is assassinated and a turmoil happens.

Elias Murcia reply to Kevin- I agree that it represents the final destruction of civilization and for that reason all of the savages attacked short after.

Olivia- The conch was a symbol of society, and civilization throughout the book. When the conch was smashed, it symbolized the boys allowing themselves to be savage.

Jeffery Yang - The destruction of the conch symbolized law and order as it is overpowered by natural human instincts to act wild and savage.

Elias Murcia reply to Jeffery- I would agree with that seeing as it has almost the same effect as the end of civilization.

Grace- The crushed conch is the symbol of officially losing power. As there is nothing to govern the boys anymore, the boys are free to turn loose. Because there is no more civilization, the boys turn savage.

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Throughout the course of the story, why is

it that the boys’ personality and behavior change so dramatically? Would you say that their experiences have made them grow up a little?

Kathleen Park- The boys' behaviors change so much because there isn't a presence of an adult anymore. Because they are still little boys, they are going to do whatever they want to do now that there isn't anyone to stop them. I would say that for Ralph, it did make him more mature and lose his innocence, but for the other boys, they did not "grow" that much.

Alex Vianey- As time progressed in the story, they grew more and more dramatic as the social society began to break down. This happened in part due to the lack of adults, giving the kids a feeling that they can do whatever they want, but also because of Jack and his choir. When Ralph got elected leader of the tribe, Jack grew angered, which clouded his mind of reasoning. This caused him to instead of being rationale and think his way through problems, just use savagery and lead by fear, eventually converting most of the tribe into savages. After they got rescued however, a few of the boys, such as Ralph, and SamnEric, definitely grew more mature after having seen what people do when they're desperate. As for the rest however, depending on how savage they turned, they will probably either stay the way they were and be beyond help, or possibly eventually

realize that what they did is wrong and then and only then become more mature.

Alexandra Marlette- I say that if anything the boy grew younger and older at the same time because they still scrabbled as if they were younger but those such as Piggy thought with forethought that surpassed his years. So the boy personality was bent into this sense of no rules, and since the boys had been governed by rules all their lives this lead to them losing themselves in the island freedom.

Minkyu- I think it changed so fast because they were in extreme situation, they had to worry about food, water, house, and being rescued. It might made boys think only extreme thinks and situations.

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Savagery

When the author describes, “The chief’s blush was hidden by the white and red clay. Into his uncertain silence the tribe spilled their murmur once more. Then the chief held up his hand…” what does this imply about how Jack and the boys’ actions change ever since they first begin wearing the masks?

Soujanya- Jack and the boys started acting more like savages ever since they began wearing the masks. They thought that it would make them stronger and more powerful, even though in reality, they just looked like wimps that were trying to hide their fear. The boys also begin doing very bad things after they wore the masks. For example, Simon and Piggy were both killed while Jack and the hunters wore masks.

I completely agree with what you are saying, and I never thought that it was to hide the fear. You could also say that the masks were methods of getting away with all the bad things they did

Elias Murcia- I think that when they began to wear masks they started to feel like they have no fear and that they have more power than even Ralph.

I would agree with what you said.

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Ralph starts as just another playful boy, but eventually realizes how serious their situation is. Choose an event in the book that you see as a definitive turning point for Ralph and make sure to support your choice.

Jeffery Yang - When Jack goes hunting for pigs, he brings Samneric, who were on duty for keeping the fire burning, along with him. With no one attending the fire, it burnt out and ceased to create signal smoke. When Ralph sees a distant ship in the shore, he check on the fire, and sees that there is none. He realizes this is the reason they were undetected by the ship, and missed an opportunity for rescue. After this event, he calls a meeting to address rules, and sees Piggy's ideas of a well governed society with e different perspective.

Reply to Jeffery - Mollie - Yes, that seems to be when Ralph realizes how bad their situation is truly shaping up to be. After he calls that meeting and acts civilized, he seems more truly and deeply motivated to get the boys to work together and get rescued.

Olivia- Ralph realizes how serious their situation is when the boys are almost spotted by a ship. He realized that if the boys had been more serious about their predicament, they would have been rescued. At this point, he calls a meeting, and tells the other boys that they must get their act together.

Reply to Olivia - Mollie - Yes, as with Jeffery, I agree that this is the turning point for Ralph form playful boy to a mature person trying to get everyone home safely.

Shad Huda- I believe the biggest event of his turning point is when he threw and sturck the spear in the pig when He and Jack's hunters went to find the beast. He became exicited at the fact he hit the pig and even joined in when the group began to attack Robert.

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Foreshadowing

Simon is the only boy on the island that understands what the beast really is. How does Golding foreshadow this?

Alhad - Golding Foreshadows this by revealing Simon's thoughts about the beast, but he also does it subtly, purposely making Simon a shy character, so as if to show the thoughts of Simon in the background at first, then make the realization appear later.

Reply to Alhad - Olivia - Yes, I thought Golding foreshadowed when Simon told the other boys that the beast they feared the most is what the boys were becoming. This shows that from the beginning of the book, Simon understands the beast, and would be the most likely character to discover what the beast truly was.

Kevin- Golding foreshadows that Simon realizes that there is no real beast through Simon speaking up at one of the meeting with the conch. He talked about how the boys were the beast, and that there was no real beast.

Reply to Kevin - Olivia - I think the scene that you just mentioned was the scene where it is possible to predict what the beast is. Golding wrote the novel, so that Simon said that the beast was the boys themselves, and later, discovered the beast wasn't real.
Shad Huda- He foreshadows the fact that Simon would be the only boy on the island to know what the beast really by showing that he saying he talked to the Lord of the Flies.

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How do you think eveything would have gone if Jack had led the group from the beginning? How would Ralph, Piggy, and Simon react?

Kathleen Park- If Jack had led the group from the start, things could have been a lot worse. There might have been more killings and they might have never been found by the British naval officer.

I agree. As Jack had more evil intentions from the beginning, he must have led a dictatorship from the beginning and eventually killed everyone off.

Elias Murcia- I don't think things would have been any worse. I think that if Jack had started out as chief there might have been less deaths. If Jack chose not to start a signal fire that one boy with the mark on his face might not have.

I agree. It did not make much of a difference whether Ralph led or Jack led. When Ralph led the group, they boys would do whatever they pleased, frustrating Ralph, but Jack allowed them to do what they wanted under his control

Minkyu Song- I think anyways Ralph , Piggy and Simon would get out of that jack's group and make their own democratic group with rules. Ralph , Piggy and Simon were kids who tried hard to maintain themselves as modernized, civilized. the fact that Jack leads the group wouldn't change anything

I disagree. There was evil within each boy, whether they realized it or not. Had Ralph not been there to surpressed the evil for as long as he could, the boys would have gone savage much earlier. Remember, even Piggy and Ralph helped to murder Simon.

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Hypothesize why Simon fainted after seeing the Lord of the Flies

Kevin Aiken- Simon might have fainted from a lack of nourishment. That would also explain why the Lord of the Flies was talking to him. He could have just fainted because hearing voices in his head was too much for him to deal with, or the smell of the dead pig could have been too much.

Reply to Kevin- I agree. Simon had been walking around the island for some time without water so he probably passed out in hunger.

Elias Murcia- I think that Simon fainted mainly because he had never seen the pig before and it might have startled him. I don't think the lack of nourishment got to him until after he woke up.

Reply to Elias-

Braxton Baynard- There was no doubt that Simon was going a little crazy. Because of the lack of food and water, he began to get weaker and weaker. This with a combination of a talking pig probably overwhelmed him, causing him to faint.

Soujanya- I think Simon fainted from shock. He just talked to a dead pig and that probably put him in a state of "what just happened?!" and he fainted from the unrealistic-ness of it all. The pig also just taught him a huge lesson about evil in mankind and he fainted in order to cope with it.

Minkyu- I think he was fainted because he saw evil mankind of himself when he was having conversation with Lord of the flies. It's not realistic because you can't get fainted by things that don''t exist. so it might be same as some people faint by seeing ghost

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Who is worse/more savage: Roger or Jack? Why?

Kathleen Park- Jack is more savage because he's the one who started the whole dance ritual killings.

Reply to Kathleen - I do not agree with that. I believe that Roger is the most savage of them all. At first, when he started kicking down the littlun's sand castle and then throwing rocks, you could tell something wasn't right with him. Then he goes and pushes a boulder off a cliff and kills Piggy purposely. Then he tortures Sam and Eric (and probably other people) and barely gets away from shoving Jack with his shoulder. All Jack wanted to do was hunt and have fun. Yes, he started the dance, but everyone else participated, and the dance started before Simon came, so it wasn't like he knew he was going to kill someone.

Reply to Dominique's reply - Yes, Roger does display some savage behavior but it is because of Jack that he is encouraged to commit worse crimes.

Reply to Kathleen - Jack did not encourage Roger to do anything. Roger chose to throw rocks, and he chose to push the boulder off the cliff and kill Piggy, and he chose to torture people. All Jack did was sit back and watch. The only thing that Jack told Roger to do was keep watch.

Reply to Dominique's reply- Ok. I now see how that Roger is like Jack's extreme evil side just as how Piggy is Ralph's good side.

Reply to Kathleen - Yes, I agree with that.

Alex Vianey- Roger is more cruel and harsh, but Jack is more savage. This is because, although Roger was of course savage, most of the acts he did were just cruel and mean, but not necessarily savage. Jack, on the other hand, is savage because he is the leader of the group that just wants to hunt pigs and act crazy.

Elias- Jack is more savage, because he was the first to find pleasure in killing the pigs and got carried away with it. Roger was initially a bit untaimed but he did not start showing signs of savagry untill after jack did.

Reply to Elias - Just because Jack became savage before Roger did doesn't mean that he is more savage.

Soujanya- Jack is more of a savage because he was the one that started with the face-painting and the ideas of hunting and etc. Jack was the one that turned Roger into a savage. If Jack hadn't turned savage, Roger would most likely have not either.

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Theme What did the “Lord of the Flies” tell Simon?

How does the book focus on this scene, and what impact does it have on the story?
Tiger- Lord of the flies said that he is part of him meaning, he is human like Simon and harmless

Reply - Olivia - I would not agree that Lord of the Flies says the beast is harmless. The beast says that the beast is evil, and is inside of all of the boys, which is why he cannot be killed. The beast could be considered human, because he is inside of the boys.

Grace- The Lord of the Flies is evil inside every man's mind, or the Id deep within the mind. As it is part of man, it is impossible to escape, but can be surpressed.

Reply - Olivia - I agree with this statement. The beast says that he is part of the boys, yet there are times when it is not as obivous.
Alhad- The Lord of the Flies told Simon that the beast was always from within and that it was funny how they thought they could hunt it. The book emphasizes this scene by using phrases such as "you are a silly little boy" as well as certain imagery. This scene is like a "revelation" as to what the beast really is, which Simon correctly predicted: the evil of man

Alhad- The Lord of the Flies told Simon that the beast was always from within and that it was funny how they thought they could hunt it. The book emphasizes this scene by using phrases such as "you are a silly little boy" as well as certain imagery. This scene is like a "revelation" as to what the beast really is, which Simon correctly predicted: the evil of man

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If Jack had been the one who had blown the conch at the very beginning of the story, how would that have affected when the boys were rescued from the island?

Jeffery Yang - Jack had no vision of a society governed by law and order. He didn't care about rescue as Ralph and Piggy did, so he would have never made the fire or the shelter. The boys would've became savages from the start and may have never been rescued.

Tiger- Jack's sole purpose was to kill the pig and find food, not call for rescue. Since, the kids were little in age and size, they would have still followed Jack like the middle of the story

Grace- At first, Jack did care about being rescued off the island, but as time passed, he started to care less and less, but even if Jack blew the conch, the children would not have likely made him leader. The book states that the boys chose Ralph because he was attractive and seemed like a natural leader. The author describes Jack as being ugly, without silliness. If he had blown the conch, he would have kept the conch, but the boys would still most likely assign Ralph as leader.

Reply to Tiger- I am confused with your answer because you just said that his sole purpose was to kill the pig. Then, you said people would have followed him. I doubt the kids would follow the hunter; they would most likely follow the chief.

Reply to Grace- I partially agree with your answer because the boys did choose Ralph because he was good-looking and attractive. However, the boys would have followed Jack because he was led in a way that made the boys feel like they were getting a lot accomplished. However, in reality, they were getting nothing done except for hunting and eating and hunting and eating.

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What is the Conch meant to symbolize in today’s

society? What would be an example of a modern day “Conch”

Alex Vianey- In today's world the conch from Lord of the Flies could be related to a judge's mallet in a court system or jury. In many ways the two objects are similar because in Lord of the Flies, whoever had the conch shell would have the authority and ability to speak at meetings. For a judge's mallet, whoever owned the mallet (the judge of the court) had the authority to control the meeting. They are, however, different in that the conch in LOTF was passed around to different people, whereas a judge's mallet stays with the judge for the whole meeting.

I agree, although today, it could represent money, as money= power in today's society.

Minkyu Song- I think conch is symbol of democracy in modern society, each of the people got to talk when they had the conch. so conch had authority not the people. It's hard to specify what is an example of conch in modern days, but democratic government system can be an example of it.

I only partially agree, as even in democracy within modern day government, people don't take turns talking, but it is an advantage to have.

Kevin- I think the conch represents something like a town hall, or some other place of gathering like a church. I think that because the conch gathers together their "town" when needed for meetings.

I agree. The conch brought those people together, such as a town hall bringing people together for governing.