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Christian lady in China asked Andy, "Why doesn't everyone in America go to church?"

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Why is the church SO resistible? Jesus wasn't!

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While most people outside the church continue to have a favorable view of Jesus, they DON'T necessarily have a favorable view of His body, the church. That is a problem.

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Andy states "Modern, mainstream Christianity is fatally flawed." Why did he make such a statement?

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Jesus stepped into history to introduce something new.

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People who were nothing like Jesus liked Jesus.

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God did not intend for Israel to be like all the other nations.

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What do I find resistible about the church?

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Does the Bible contain errors? CAN the Bible contain errors and be reliable to us as God's Word?

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Why do we need a visible idol, a visible king? Why do we need to be like everyone else?

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"It's the mixing, blending, and integration of the old with the new that makes the modern church so resistible."  What?

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Why didn't God need or want a temple built to Him?
Why did the Israelites think they needed to build Him one?
What was/were the outcome(s)?

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I wonder: what's it like to live generation after generation with prophecies and promises unfulfilled? As believers in the U. S., we live with the unfulfilled promise of the Lord's return, but our persecution and enslavement and exile are primarily spiritual and may seem not so pressing, unlike other believers worldwide who face personal harm.
Smaller temple, smaller diamond? I recall hearing during youth that my disobedience could result in a smaller, less-faceted life for the Lord. I may shake my head at the actions of the Israelites but live very similarly in doubt and disobedience rather than in faithful following.

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Why, in the Jewish scenario following Jesus' death and resurrection, did the temple have to be destroyed? Was it just coincidence...or Providence? Couldn't "something greater than the temple" have emerged and the temple remained?

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Andy says "the temple was nice to have". But it was not necessary. What did he mean by this statement

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God did return to the temple but not in a way they had visioned. God's ways truly are not our ways. Try to place yourself in the shoes of Israelites at this time. How do you think you would have responded to Jesus in the temple?

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Why would God establish a covenant (OT) that ultimately would not be needed? Why go through the trouble of allowing the OT twists and turns when "something better" would eventually straighten things out?

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The uncluttered, unfettered Gospel is nearly irresistible. Thanks, Tertullian!

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“Access to the text would have removed the primary currency of the official church: fear. Something Jesus refused to leverage. Something he repeatedly instructed his followers not to do.”

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“Church” officials executed a man for translating and distributing the words of Jesus in a language adults and children could read and understand.

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Why was “Do this in remembrance of me” so offensive?

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“But while the new covenant signaled the fulfillment of God’s promise to Abraham, it signaled the finale of the covenant God established with ancient Israel at Mt. Sinai.”

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“The church leaders leveraged old covenant texts to sanction violence in God’s name while promising the new covenant version of heaven for those who participated.”

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Essentially salvation came by way of God’s grace, good works, and penance for the not-so-good works, along with the merits accumulated by the saints who preceded us.

What am I tempted add to grace?

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“Why would a Christian kick their son or daughter out of the house for being pregnant or gay?“

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“none of this is a big deal as long as we are content creating closed church cultures designed by and for church people.”

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Early church officials knew that if commoners had access to the Scriptures, they would discover the church of their generation was nothing like the church described in the NT!

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Hope you guys have a great conversation tonight.

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Hope you guys have a great conversation tonight.

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Tammy (forgot how to post)

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Bad church experiences are almost always related to old covenant remnants.
The old covenant was with ancient Israel. The old covenant was temporary.
While Jesus was foreshadowed in the old covenant, he did not come to extend it.
How many words can you make with the letters of "bilateral suzerainty?"
The Bible is all God's Word...to somebody. But it's not all God's word to everybody.
The Bible was organized around two covenants: one with ancient Israel and one with everyone who wants to participate.
No one has spotted Jesus of Nazareth in the Old Testament until they were first introduced to him by way of the New Testament.
As long as we blend the old with the new, we will miss the beauty and power of what Jesus gave his life to unleash in the world.

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Whose name was conspicuously missing from the last mission Jesus gave his disciples? What clue should this have given them?

How were both Saul's and Peter's "conversions" vital and unique to the spread of the Good News of Jesus?

What happened when Peter went to the Centurion's home, and how did his guests respond? And how did the Jewish believers respond when he told them back at home?

What was the significance of prioritizing keeping the peace over keeping the law, and how did both Jewish and Gentile believers respond to the decision from James and the others?

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Believers belong to Jesus, not to the old covenant....According to Paul, Jesus followers are dead to the Ten Commandments....To be clear: thou shalt not obey the Ten Commandments.
Under the new covenant, we don't visit the temple; we are the temple.
God's covenant with Israel was made obsolete the moment Jesus ratified the new covenant.
The old and new covenants are not compatible. They are not blendable. They are sequential.
"You can make her go, or you can let her go. But you can't do both."

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"For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another....By calling this covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
God's arrangement with Israel was a necessary step between God's promise to Abraham and the fulfillment of that promise.
Gentiles reduced the Jewish Scriptures to proof-texts (looking for evidence of Jesus). In the course of a generation, Jewish history became Christian allegory.
It's important to remember that the initial persecution of the church wasn't initiated by Rome. It was initiated by the temple....Later, when the Roman Empire launched its own persecution of Christians, local Jews supported the empire and participated in the trials.
Anti-Semitism surfaced as early as the late first century. Combining the covenants paved the way for church support of slavery, anti-Semitism, inquisitions, forced conversions, and a host of other unJesus-like enterprises.
By the time of the Reformation....the ferocity of the conflict between Catholics and Protestants was every bit as violent as the warfare described in the Old Testament.
Christianity has a compelling, verifiable, historical story to tell. But the moment we anchor our story to an old covenant narrative and worldview, we lose our case in the marketplace....Pretty much everything that makes the church resistible is tethered to some version of blended-model theology.

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While Jesus was foreshadowed in the old covenant, He did not come to extend it. He came to fulfill it, put a bow on it, and establish something new.

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Are there any OT (old covenant) promises that are applicable today

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Under the old covenant when you obeyed, you were blessed. When you disobeyed, you were punished. Under the new covenant, when you obey, you may suffer. If you disobey, the world may applaud you and you may even prosper.

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"I'm not suggesting that the two testaments are not equally inspired. My point is they aren't equally applicable."

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The Greek term translated fulfill is used in both Matthew and Luke. In both instances the term means to bring to a designated end.  Jesus did not come to abolish - as in destroy - the validity of, or undermine the credibility, of the law. Jesus came to bring it to a designated end.

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Jesus was born under God's covenant with Israel with the purpose of bringing that covenant to its sovereignly ordained end.
You don't say, "but," to the law of Moses, unless you're greater than Moses...greater than the temple...greater than the Law. Jesus was.
So what did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the Law? To bring it to a designated end.
"The majority of people I've talked to who've abandoned their faith have lost faith in Jesus because they lost confidence in the Bible."
Through the shedding of his[Jesus'] blood, a new covenant, a better covenant, a broader covenant was being established between God and all who would choose to participate.

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Interesting comments at the end of the chapter concerning Jesus' famous last words "It is finished."

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We new covenant folks should embrace the decision of the Jerusalem council: it's not our covenant. It wasn't given to us and it's not binding on us.
The Old Testament is history. It describes God's activity in connection to one people group.
In it, what we learn about God comes through the filter of Jewish history and a specific covenant.
Jesus lived differently. In Old Covenant terms, his life would have been a loss, a failure.
There's no heaven in Jewish Scripture, only Sheol.
The Old Testament is good for inspiration, not application.
Interpret Paul's "All Scripture is useful..." by his behavior and teaching. He avoided using Old Covenant principles.
Regardless, we should affirm the goodness and divine origin of the Old Covenant. It is the back story for the greatest story. The old set of commandments has yielded to a new commandment and new ethical framework: far less complicated but far more demanding.

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What does the phrase that James used, "... we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God", mean?

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Paul's energy in trying to eradicate The Way was funneled, after his conversion, into convincing his fellow Jews that God had inaugurated something new and to lead Gentiles into a relationship with Jesus. How dynamic could the church be if we funneled our energy for sports, politics or our hobbies into showing the love of Christ to those around us?

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Does Andy's comment "Thou shalt not obey the Ten Commandments" cause you to be uncomfortable? What is the implication of this statement?

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Obsolete does not mean bad. It means something better has come along.

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How low can I go?
Go high or go home?
Or???

First be reconciled to brother or sister, then bring your gift to God. Say again?
Horizontal morality
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. And love your neighbor as yourself.
The second "is like it."
"These two commands complete and bring into fulfillment all of Scripture."
Can't choose, must do both.
Who is my neighbor? (Bob Goff, "Everybody Always")
And then a Democrat, er, Republican, er, Samaritan...
"Good Samaritan" was an oxymoron.
"If loving one's neighbor was the ultimate expression of one's love and  devotion to God, the temple and everything associated with it suddenly became less important."
"the new governing ethic for his new movement"

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Jesus' new covenant would include instructions for his followers, not on tablets but engraved in their hearts, minds, and consciences.
The new commandment was not additional, but the replacement.
Jesus' love for the men in the room, rather than his authority over them, is what he leveraged to instruct and inspire them.

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The apostle Paul had more influence on the development of Christian thought and theology than anyone who has ever lived, including Jesus Christ.
Why do we forgive? Because God in Christ forgave us.
According to Paul, Christian behavior is to be patterned after Christ's sacrificial love for mankind.
Faith working through love means everything.
Paul never leverages the old covenant as the basis for Christian behavior.

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The marriage relationship is a "submission competition, a race to the back of the line."
We are to love each other, just as Christ loved us.
One-anothering is the Christian pattern of life.

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God is love.
Whoever says he loves God but hates his brother is still in darkness.
Love for God is shown by obeying Jesus' command, following his example.
Believers maintain fellowship with God by loving those God loves.
God's love does not require us to do something for God. He's fine. God's love obligates us to do something for those around us.
Is there anything that gives us (or God?) more pleasure than seeing our children love each other?

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Jesus instructed his followers to do unto one another as he had done unto them. He raised the bar.

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The basis for Christian behavior is the sacrificial love of Jesus.
When Paul writes, "But whatever are gains to me," he's referring to old covenant accomplishments and pursuits. Nothing he did that aligned with the old covenant were now considered loss ... for the sake of Christ!

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Put others first just as Christ put you first.
Submit to one another
Forgive one another
Encourage one another
Restore one another
Accept one another
Care for one another
Bear with one another
Carry one another's burdens

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Scholars believed John penned or dictated 1 John after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. The horror and loss of life associated with that event alone would cause even the most devout to doubt the love or even the existence of God. By this time in history, Peter and Paul had been executed in Nero's Rome along with hundreds of devout Jesus followers. If God was love, there was certainly no evidence of it in John's world. Yet he insisted it was so. How could he propose such an idea?
He did not confuse the cruelty of life with the love that is God. But God is love. Life is harsh. Cruel. Unjust. But God ... God is love!

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To refuse to love a brother or sister is to forgo the opportunity to love God.

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Instead of "Is __________ a sin?", we should ask What does love require of me?
There are many things that the New Covenant doesn't specifically or directly address. In all those areas, we should ask the question above.

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New covenant obedience is always connected to a who.  Old Covenant obedience was connected with a why?

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As Christians we have been called to set the bar high.  Real high!
The behavioral standard for new covenanters is straightforward: If it's not good for them, it's sin.

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For Paul, as an educated Jew, to suggest Gentile believers were now on equal footing with the Jewish temples was outlandish to first century Jews.

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C.S. Lewis wrote, "There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal ... it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit ... Next to the blessed sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses."

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What is the proper response to sin?

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Under the old covenant, people obeyed in order to gain and maintain God's covenant promises. Under the new covenant, people obey to show honor to those God honors and, in doing so, honor God.
Maybe we would stop cross-examining our Bibles looking for loopholes, but rather search the Scriptures looking for ways to love better.

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We would have been horrified by the moment God was most glorified.

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Al Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, made a comment, "The vast majority of people who've been baptized by our people (Southern Baptists) are our own offspring. We've never been very evangelistic in terms of people who weren't those to whom we gave birth."
What an indictment!

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Pew Research noted that 23% of Americans claim "None" as their religious affiliation (that is just under 56 million people). With millennials, the number of "Nones" rises to 44%. 72% of "Nones" stated that their view of Scripture was that it was not the Word of God. 27% of millennial non-Christians believe the "Bible is a dangerous book of religious dogma used for centuries to oppress people."

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Do you agree with Andy's assessment that we must rethink our approach to reach the "nones" and unchurched?

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Appealing to post-Christian people on the basis of the authority of Scripture has essentially the same effect as a Muslim imam appealing to you on the basis of the authority of the Quran.

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What did they believe that they don't believe anymore that left them believing they are no longer believers?

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The apostles appropriately leveraged the Old Testament to make their case to their Jewish brothers and sisters. But they typically did not leverage the Jewish Scriptures to make their case to the Gentile world.

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We are to be prepared to explain our reason for choosing to follow Jesus. Nowhere are we instructed to be prepared to defend a text or convince people to accept an authoritative book before considering the message of Jesus.

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Our faith doesn't teeter on the brink of extinction based on the archaeology or the history of the Old Testament.

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The first converts to Christianity did not believe Jesus rose from the dead because they read about it. There was nothing to read. They believed He rose from the dead because eyewitnesses told them about it.

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We don't believe because the Bible says. We believe because Jesus rose!

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The way most of us talk about the Bible leaves folks with the impression that if it's not all verifiably true then none of it can or should be trusted.

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Paul modified his approach based upon his audience. How can we modify our approach of extending the gospel to those around us?

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The approach to preaching, teaching, writing, and evangelism most of us saw modeled and, consequently, unwittingly inherited, is perfectly designed for a culture that no longer exists. "The Bible says" doesn't carry the weight it once did.

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What is the faith of the next generation worth?

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A post-Christian society is not merely a society in which agnosticism or atheism is the prevailing fundamental belief. It is a society rooted in the history, culture, and practices of Christianity but in which the religious beliefs of Christianity have been either rejected or worse, forgotten.

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Our faith is based on an event, the Resurrection, and not on error-free writings.
Scientific findings are no threat to my faith.

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Christianity was birthed because of an event, not a document.

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With Post-Christians, it's time to stop appealing to the authority of a sacred text in making a case for Jesus.