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Xa

Anonymous
1m

Xanadu
I agree with Megan about the picture. It was the last thing that was keeping him sane because he had already lost everything else.
 
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The relationships throughout the story

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I do agree with Elijah that if his father had depression, that he resents Gregor for not getting it through him like he did. He could represent people who don't understand that people have different feelings

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Reflecting on Socrates' quote  “The unexamined life is not worth living", I think this has an ironic comparison to The Metamorphosis. Gregor loses his life because

he refuses to “examine” it which leads him to do just that in his new form tha prevents him from communications/sharing his problems with anyone else. He gains wisdom from this change. Ironically, after all this, instead of getting his life back with a new perspective, he loses it completely.

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I do agree with the comment made on how the sister within the story also experienced the raw transformation of a young girl into her state of womanhood.

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I agree with Alexis because the story does included the change of Gregor but so do many of the other characters 

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I agree with Alexis because the story does included the change of Gregor but so do many of the other characters 

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I like what Megan said about how they did not accept him. I think that as you look at how Gregor is treated, it is clear that a theme in this book is that we need to accept those who have mental illnesses. Even if we are afraid of them, or do not fully understand them, we can still accept them, and treat the people that have them like human beings. 

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I like what Megan said about how they did not accept him. I think that as you look at how Gregor is treated, it is clear that a theme in this book is that we need to accept those who have mental illnesses. Even if we are afraid of them, or do not fully understand them, we can still accept them, and treat the people that have them like human beings. 

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Since no one is talking about symbolism I feel as if the food was how much they cared for him. At the beginning he was getting good for his favorite foods showing they are realling caring for him then after a while they just give up on trying to feed him and just give them all they have left

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I agree with Meagan that he didn't overreact to his transformation because he expected it. Everyone had already treated him like a worthless vermin, so when he woke up and found himself to be such a person, he gave in to other's opinions and accepted himself as who others saw him to be.

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It does seem like he began to view himself lower and lower as his family began to treat him poorly, as Nina is saying. This added to his death, and his fading away of humanity. It is, once again, a form of self torture, that he puts on him self and ultimately results in his death. 

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It does seem like he began to view himself lower and lower as his family began to treat him poorly, as Nina is saying. This added to his death, and his fading away of humanity. It is, once again, a form of self torture, that he puts on him self and ultimately results in his death. 

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I agree with Nina that the actual change was because they treated him like a pest. 

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I agree with Nina that the actual change was because they treated him like a pest. 

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I agree with Elijah that Gregor was depressed. Isolation and alienation was a common occurrence in his life. He was lonely at work and unappreciated at home. Even when he woke up as a giant bug, he was concerned about the rain outside and how it "completely depressed him" (Kafka 1157). He may have had other mental illnesses, but depression is emphasized the most.

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I agree with the butterfly transformation being a more graceful thing rather than a cockroach because of the way that we view different types of people.

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I think any transformation would still show he is losing himself

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I think any transformation would still show he is losing himself

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I agree with the fact that the story correlated so closely to  Kafka's real life 

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I agree with the fact that the story correlated so closely to  Kafka's real life 

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Do you think that some part of Gregor was glad of the transformation?

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I think this story was part of a reflection of Kafka's life. In the bio of Kafka it says he had a "distant" relationship with his "stern" father. This could represent the relationship Gregor has with his father. Also Kafka was always working much like Gregor.

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I think when Gregor's family is calling him "it", they're referring more to the illness that he's suffering from rather than him as a person, because before there was awareness for mental illnesses, people dismissed the person and characterized them based on the problems they suffered from.

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I think when Gregor's family is calling him "it", they're referring more to the illness that he's suffering from rather than him as a person, because before there was awareness for mental illnesses, people dismissed the person and characterized them based on the problems they suffered from.

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I like how Elijah brought in the time period because that explains the story 100%. People in this time period were scared of people with mental illness the same way people are scared of bugs

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I agree that it could be a reflection on his own life and that his biography portrays himself as Gregor 

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I agree that it could be a reflection on his own life and that his biography portrays himself as Gregor 

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I think that the time period had a huge effect on way that they handled is 

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I think that the time period had a huge effect on way that they handled is 

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I feel like his house turned into like an example of an insane asylum  or just a medial hospital where someone brings you the food and after a while you are just going to starve to death, and when the his sister gives him his favorite drink it's like a visit to his room trying to see if Gregor is still there.

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I feel like his house turned into like an example of an insane asylum  or just a medial hospital where someone brings you the food and after a while you are just going to starve to death, and when the his sister gives him his favorite drink it's like a visit to his room trying to see if Gregor is still there.

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I would say that even though we don't know what he felt before the morning he woke up, we can infer from some words said by the manager that he definitely was affected by something. The manager even says he's developed "strange whims" and his work has gone downhill. For a man who has been working for five years without fail, this is highly unusual and so it signifies that something was going on with him before the beetle transformation.

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I agree that it could not have been solely depression and that social expectation does play a part in this story

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I think Gregor suffered from depression and loneliness before his "transformation", and once he becomes the bug is when his thoughts became too much to deal with in silence, so in a way his transformation was a cry for help because that was when others began to notice his deterioration.

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I agree that this isn't a specific mental illness and it is a opening the readers minds to all of the different mental illness 

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I agree that this isn't a specific mental illness and it is a opening the readers minds to all of the different mental illness 

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I agree that there is not specific mental illness. Especially the fact that he just woke up shattered and broken. Also, who gets to decide if he"s crazy? I strongly agree with H because we really don't know anything previous to the story. We don't know if he just woke up crazy or if it built it. It would explain that that's why he woke up so calm and acted so normal about the situation. Everything was bottled up and he finally snapped and that's why it shocked his family. Kaufka wanted to portray himself as Gregor. There are so many similarities. Kaufka has bronchitis. He also had a rough relationship with his father just like in the story.

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I agree with Elijah, that what is happening to Gregor is supposed to represent all mental illnesses, because of how broad Gregor's symptoms are. All that is happening to him is a representation on how the people are treated, when they have to deal with mental issues.

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Going off what Maggie said, It's clear that Grete still loved her brother at the beginning of his transformation. While I was reading, I noticed that Gregor hinted at having romantic feelings for sister. This is seen when  “He was determined to force himself on until he reached his sister, to pluck at her skirt, and to let her know in this way that she should bring her violin into his room...He would never again let her out of his room- at least not for as long as he lived…” (Kafka 1186). Gregor could feel guilty for these incestuous feelings, which could explain how this transformation was self-punishment. Do you guys think he had romantic feels for his sister?

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I think that his mental illness led up to him becoming a "Bug". I feel that the pressure of constantly having to work and make money literally made him go insane. It also has a lot to do with isolation and how besides from work and his family he didn't really have much of a social life.
I agree with Meagan that he doesn't even know who he is.
Elijah made a great point about how people with mental illnesses were treated in the early 1900's. This could relate to how Gregor's parents treated him when he turned into a bug.

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I think that Grete symbolizes people that give up on their loved ones with mental illnesses.

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I agree with Marvin that Grete gave up on Gregor, but I am wondering why. What finally pushed her to want to be rid of him and stop caring for him?

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I think he wanted to keep the picture as a tie to his human life. Had they got rid of the furniture and the picture, he would have nothing left and that would mean that he was accepting his new life and leaving his old one behind.

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we don't see anything before the transformation, we don't know his feelings before so we can't argue whether or not he has a mental illness because we don't have any text before the transformation. He is confined in a room all alone all day everyday. The only human contact he gets is seeing his sister a couple times a week and the charwomen that gawks at him on the regular. That type of solitary confinement is proven to make people crazy. He may have developed a mental illness because of the trauma of being turned into a BUG.

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we don't see anything before the transformation, we don't know his feelings before so we can't argue whether or not he has a mental illness because we don't have any text before the transformation. He is confined in a room all alone all day everyday. The only human contact he gets is seeing his sister a couple times a week and the charwomen that gawks at him on the regular. That type of solitary confinement is proven to make people crazy. He may have developed a mental illness because of the trauma of being turned into a BUG.

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I would agree with Xanadu that it was a punishment. I think he self inflicted it out of delusional guilt. He works hard but doesn't think it's enough because his family view of him isn't much. As a punishment to himself he doesn't want to harm them with the sight of him and "One day, in order to spare her even this sight, he spent four hours carrying the bed sheet over to the couch on his back and arranged it so that he was completely covered and his sister would not be able to see him even if she bent down” (1174). They do not reciprocate care for him that he has for his family.

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I would agree with Xanadu that it was a punishment. I think he self inflicted it out of delusional guilt. He works hard but doesn't think it's enough because his family view of him isn't much. As a punishment to himself he doesn't want to harm them with the sight of him and "One day, in order to spare her even this sight, he spent four hours carrying the bed sheet over to the couch on his back and arranged it so that he was completely covered and his sister would not be able to see him even if she bent down” (1174). They do not reciprocate care for him that he has for his family.

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I agree with the comment that Maggie made because there is an underlying meaning that people must take time to find who they truly are.

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I disagree with Abby, Gregor doesnt loose his humanity, I feel it is made quite clear that Gregor still has his connection to his family, that he still cares for them. His mental clarity is degrading, but i think it is a more compelling argument to claim that Gregor's family has lost more humanity than he has

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I completely agree with Abby, I think he didn't have a voice and that was taken when he transformed into the bug, but the symbolism is that it was always like that - he never did have a say in the family - he was just a money machine for the family to keep taking from and never giving back to him.

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I completely agree with Abby, I think he didn't have a voice and that was taken when he transformed into the bug, but the symbolism is that it was always like that - he never did have a say in the family - he was just a money machine for the family to keep taking from and never giving back to him.

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I agree with Shaila's point about the narrator being a point that he went through a transformation. But is it possible the  third person limited projects Gregor's thoughts in a way? How does the 3rd person limited vs 3rd person omniscient impact the portrayal of Gregor? 

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I agree with Shaila's point about the narrator being a point that he went through a transformation. But is it possible the  third person limited projects Gregor's thoughts in a way? How does the 3rd person limited vs 3rd person omniscient impact the portrayal of Gregor? 

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I think once he died it was just a relief for his family and that's how they were able to move on. He had been an elephant in the room and had disrupted their lives and once he was gone it was like a burden had been lifted off their shoulders.

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I believe he became an actual vermin to symbolize his depressed state.  In the first two lines, "When Gregor Samsa woke up one morning from unsettling dreams, he found himself changed in his bed into a monstrous vermin." Gregor is not the narrator. If he was then maybe he was hallucinating, but he isn't. Thus, he is not hallucinating.

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I believe that it was indeed an apple and agree with the stance that the apple represented something far more than a fruit. The apple demonstrated the relationship that Gregor had with his father following the transformation. It was more of a symbolic gesture that dictated the relationship.

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I disagree that the apple thrown at Gregor was not real or symbolic, I believe that it was physically tangible. The pain that Gregor describes is too real, "Gregor wanted to drag himself away, as if he could remove the surprising, the incredible pain by changing his position" (Kafka). While the apple was most likely real, it could have represented more for Gregor, as if it was the last straw for him. I also think it is extremely interesting that apples represent the fall of man.

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I agree that the author was trying to show that anyone can get depression. In the beginning Gregor was described as a normal working man but he was not an exception.

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I agree that the author was trying to show that anyone can get depression. In the beginning Gregor was described as a normal working man but he was not an exception.

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I really like that Jessica referenced Kafka's biography in providing proof for Gregor's possible mental illness.

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I agree that he really turned into a bug, the story is fictional so I don't think it's far fetched at all

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I agree that he really turned into a bug, the story is fictional so I don't think it's far fetched at all

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If he wasn't a bug, why can't they understand him, why are they so scared of his appearance??????

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If he wasn't a bug, why can't they understand him, why are they so scared of his appearance??????

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In the early 1900's patients with mental illnesses were treated as vermin, as scum of the earth. They were cast away into incredibly unsanitary asylums. The idea that Gregor was treated as not human is indicative of this time. It is very apparent he is not an actual insect, both by their reactions to his transformation, and the constant themes of mental illness. I believe it is less of a commentary on depression, more on serious mental illness, the story seems as if it is what the family views Gregor as, through his own lense

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I would say that perhaps in the story he actually does turn into a bug, but Kafka is in using this as a metaphor for disabilities or mental illness in real life. Gregor went from being the only person supporting the family to a burden on them. He couldn't eat or move and was no longer able to communicate his thoughts with his family. This is very similar to what can happen with certain physical and mental illnesses.

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While it is a good point that Gregor would be unrecognizable if he transformed into a bug, I believe he was still recognizable as himself, as he most likely still had the same face- just a horrifying body. Also, he most likely still had some of his regular mannerisms and personality, regardless of his transformed state.

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It also says that he was "lying on his back as hard as armour plate" and it goes further saying how his legs were thin. I think he was just overthinking his mental state but it represents the lack of acknowledgement that he received his whole life - everyone saw him as a bug so that's what he came to see himself as.

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It also says that he was "lying on his back as hard as armour plate" and it goes further saying how his legs were thin. I think he was just overthinking his mental state but it represents the lack of acknowledgement that he received his whole life - everyone saw him as a bug so that's what he came to see himself as.

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I agree that Gregor loses touch with himself and his humanity through the loss of human interaction. As his family slowly gives up on him, Gregor gives up on himself as well.

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I agree with Laura. I feel like Gregor slowly was losing himself. He woke up a bug but it seemed like it was gradual, so it seems like depression.
I agree with Abby, all Gregor cared about how his family was doing and he wanted them to treat him more human, to keep his humanity, which his family was keeping him from being mentally okay.

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-I agree with Laura, i think he is suffering with some sort of mental illness and his family does not understand what he's going through at all. He is such a burden to them he might as well be just a giant bug

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-I agree with Laura, i think he is suffering with some sort of mental illness and his family does not understand what he's going through at all. He is such a burden to them he might as well be just a giant bug

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-i think the author made it seem like a small thing because gregor is so use to ignoring his problems so he can take care of his family, he wanted to show how out of control your mental health can get if you don't take care of yourself. I don't think gregor's feelings were anything new, they just got to a point of being so bad he couldn't ignore them and now his family noticed it.

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I would agree with Maggie that Gregor turned into a bug physically. They begin to refer to him as 'it' and as well their reaction to him wouldn't be as vile if he was still human. The father threw an apple at him and it stuck. That wouldn't have been possible with a human body. It stayed for so long it began to grow moldy (1188). Once he dies the charwoman also takes care of his body and this would most likely happen with a dead bug than a human.

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I would agree with Maggie that Gregor turned into a bug physically. They begin to refer to him as 'it' and as well their reaction to him wouldn't be as vile if he was still human. The father threw an apple at him and it stuck. That wouldn't have been possible with a human body. It stayed for so long it began to grow moldy (1188). Once he dies the charwoman also takes care of his body and this would most likely happen with a dead bug than a human.

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I think that he didn't physically turn into a bug but in his biography it states that Kafka is mentally unsound - he suffered from severe anxiety and depression and constantly felt alone and like an outsider. He had a mental illness though for sure so that probably transferred to this story.

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I think that he didn't physically turn into a bug but in his biography it states that Kafka is mentally unsound - he suffered from severe anxiety and depression and constantly felt alone and like an outsider. He had a mental illness though for sure so that probably transferred to this story.

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I agree with Laura. He definitely must have had some sort of mental illness or disability of some sort.

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While I agree with his point, I believe there is evidence that shows that Gregor is not just simply insane.  I believe that he has literally gone through a transformation. In the first sentence, the narrator writes, “One morning, when Gregor Samsa woke from troubled dreams, he found himself transformed in his bed into a horrible vermin” (Kafka --). From this, it is obvious that Gregor is not the narrator. If Gregor himself was the narrator, his hallucinations and insanity would be a possibility. Therefore, for Gregor to be insane and not truly transformed, the story would have to be told by an insane narrator. This is also reaffirmed in Gregor’s many attempts to convince himself that this is just a dream, but after many failed attempts he is forced to face his new reality.

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Insanity is a legal term,  Gregor isn't insane. The term insane was created for broad purposes, to allow the general populous to understand a criminal defense. Insanity can come off as very derogatory, especially when concerning mental illness. A large majority of mental illnesses can be forced by compounded stress, and some of them can be expressed on the spot, instead of a gradual transition.

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I agree with Laura that Gregor is really depressed. In the beginning he could barely get out of bed and that could resemble a symptom of depression; feeling so worthless that getting out of bed is a challenge. I don't think he is insane, I just think he is slowly losing his humanity because of his mental illness. His family doesn't even see him as a part of them, they are disgusted by him and force him to stay in his bedroom so he cannot disturb anyone else.
Dehumanization is almost a normal and natural thing for Gregor since the relationship he has with his family and because of his job. Being a traveling salesman, he his constantly in new environments by himself. He doesn't have a good diet and he says that he's "constantly seeing new faces" but "no relationships that last or get more intimate" (Kafka 1157). He works a lot just to help pay off his parent's debt but they don't really appreciate him. They don't even ask how he's feeling or tell him to take a break from work. They're like parasites; they feed off of what Gregor provides them but they don't provide anything back.

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I see where Maggie was coming from with the initial descriptions of Gregor as a bug/vermin, but I feel like it's more likely he's actually insane because it's unlikely he would ACTUALLY transform into a bug overnight. Plus, he isn't changing more into a bug as the story progresses, it just seems likes he's losing himself even more.

Laura's point about him losing his humanity (referred to as "it") is a great point.

I feel like Gregor isn't a bug because he's displaying emotions and actions of someone who's depressed (like what Xanadu's saying) - he would probably still be able to live his life, but he just doesn't have motivation to do so.

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I disagree with him being completely insane, I think he is neglected by the people that he loves most and it hurts him to the point he thinks he in a "vermin", or stranger to his own family.
I agree that he could just be having a midlife crisis because he doesn't want to do anything anymore, especially going to a job that he hates.
I agree with Jessica switching to how the narrator wrote it and reading into the words. The author doesn't emphasize the transformation, it is told very camly.
I think it is intresting how the apple symbolizes the fall of man, told by Xanadu,   and how that protrays Gregor's feelings and how he feels his life is ending and there is nothing he can do about it.
I agree with Laura and Abby how he keeps working for his parents and forgetting to think about himself. He his losing his humanity during that process and his own self-worth. His parents even hate on him making him feel like he isn't doing good enough and didn't care about his death.

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If he isn't a bug, how did the apple stay stuck in his back?

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I agree with Laura, Gregor seems to be depressed because after he turned into the vermin his family slowly started to not care for him anymore and they no longer accepted him the same way as when they did when he was human.

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I agree with Shaq and Laura that Gregor did not physically become a vermin, and that he instead  had mental issues. He  isn't very surprised at his transformation and often mentions how he could speak initially, but lost it after a moment. The evidence about how everyone around him ignores his existence is very telling in regards to this theory.
I agree with the idea that you can wake up any day a changed person, ruined by depression (like Gregor). It slowly progresses over the span of time that it persists.
I agree  with Laura that the apple is most likely a symbol for a very cruel attack on Gregor by his father.
I agree with Xanadu that the lack of care for Gregor after his death is representative of how little they care for him.

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Is it working?