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Why I am Opposed to the Vietnam War

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Why I Am Opposed to the War in Vietnam - Full Speech.wmv

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"The Seventies" airs at 9 p.m. ET/PT Thursdays on CNN.

But by the time the decade wrapped, bands like The Beatles, Creedence Clearwater Revival and The Doors were ruling the charts. Counterculture had officially begun: Musicians became more socially conscious and began using their medium to speak for the anti-war masses, like in Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth," The Rolling Stones' "Gimme Shelter" and Creedence Clearwater Revival's "Fortunate Son."

However, Vietnam's impact on music didn't stop when the war ended. There are a plethora of other songs inspired by the conflict but rarely associated with it. Here are five:

Bruce Springsteen: "Born in the U.S.A."

Any Springsteen fan can tell you this, but in case you're unfamiliar with the Boss, "Born in the U.S.A." is not the patriotic, boom-box-on-top-of-Mount-Rushmore jam like Ronald Reagan's re-election campaign famously thought. At first listen, it's easy to hear what Reagan heard: booming drums, triumphant synths and Bruce going absolutely Boss-listic on the mic about the U.S.A. If you take away the lyrics, it would be the perfect soundtrack for George Washington leading his men across the Delaware River or an eagle landing on top of the Statue of Liberty.

The lyrics, however, about fighting in Khe Sanh and a veteran struggling to find work back home, paint a much different picture. When stripped down to its basic, like in its acoustic version, it becomes a completely different animal.

R.E.M. was not even a band during the Vietnam War, but lead singer Michael Stipe has a connection: His father served in Vietnam.

With lines like "serve your conscience overseas," music critics and fans alike have long speculated the song has a bigger-picture meaning, including that the "orange" Stipe is singing about is Agent Orange, not the soda. Agent Orange is a chemical the United States used in Vietnam as part of its herbicidal warfare to destroy crops and trees.

The band's music video of a young man with dog tags gives a heavy-handed hint into the song's personal meaning.

The Monkees: "Last Train to Clarksville"

Perhaps the most upbeat anti-war song of all time, songwriters Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart had to disguise the song's real meaning because it would have been too controversial for the made-for-TV Monkees.

The song tells the story of a soldier trying to meet up with his lover before being shipped off to war. Lines like "and I don't know if I'm ever coming home" contrast sharply with the bubblegum pop backing track. As legendary bass player Carol Kaye, who plays on the track, told Songfacts.com, "The mood of the song is not critical if the tempo is high."

The song's jangle and catchiness propelled it to No. 1, with its true meaning lost on many of the Monkees' younger fans.

The Clash: "Charlie Don't Surf"

The English punk band titled its 1980 song, which features lyrics critical of foreign involvement, after an iconic line in the war film "Apocalypse Now."

In the film, Lt. Col. Bill Kilgore (played by Robert Duvall) is prepping his men to storm a beachside village when a soldier raises his concern about the dangers of it being "Charlie's beach." Kilgore then, emphatically, lets the soldier know why the beach needs to be taken. with the line: "Charlie don't surf!"

The Animals: "We Gotta Get Out of This Place"

Some of the most popular songs of the '60s and '70s were about Vietnam: Edwin Starr's "War", Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On?" and John Lennon's "Give Peace a Chance." These, however, were not always hit songs with the troops fighting the war in Vietnam.

The Animals' "We Gotta Get out of This Place" was originally written by the prolific husband and wife hit-making team of Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil as an introspective look at one's life and the need for change, but it soon turned into a literal rally call of survival for those in Vietnam.

Doug Bradley is a Vietnam vet and author of a book about the soundtrack of the Vietnam War, appropriately called "We Gotta Get Out of This Place."

"We had absolute unanimity in this song being the touchstone. This was the Vietnam anthem. Every bad band that ever played in an armed forces club had to play this song," Bradley says.

Watch Episode 3 of the CNN Original Series "The Seventies" on Thursday, June 25, at 9 p.m. ET/PT for an in-depth look at the end of the Vietnam War.

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springsteen to the monkees: unexpected vietnam anthems - cnn

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Springsteen to the Monkees: Unexpected Vietnam anthems - CNN

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"The Seventies" airs at 9 p.m. ET/PT Thursdays on CNN. But by the time the decade wrapped, bands like The Beatles, Creedence Clearwater Revival and The Doors were ruling the charts.

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Agent Orange

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6 Things You May Not Know About the Vietnam War

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6 Things You May Not Know About the Vietnam War

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Table of Contents

1. Vietnam War: Weapons of the Air

2. U.S. and South Vietnamese Artillery & Infantry Weapons

3. North Vietnamese and Viet Cong Weapons in Vietnam

4. Other Weapons Used in Vietnam

From air power to infantry to chemicals, the weapons used in the Vietnam War were more devastating than those of any previous conflict. United States and South Vietnamese forces relied heavily on their superior air power, including B-52 bombers and other aircraft that dropped thousands of pounds of explosives over North Vietnam and Communist targets in South Vietnam. While U.S. troops and their allies used mainly American-manufactured weapons, Communist forces used weapons manufactured in the Soviet Union and China. In addition to artillery and infantry weapons, both sides utilized a variety of tools to further their war aims, including highly toxic chemical defoliants or herbicides (on the U.S. side) and inventive booby traps using sharpened bamboo sticks or crossbows triggered by tripwires (on the North Vietnamese-Viet Cong side).

Vietnam War: Weapons of the Air

The war saw the U.S. Air Force and their South Vietnamese allies fly thousands of massive low-altitude bombing missions over North and South Vietnam as well as over sites of suspected Communist activity in neighboring Laos and Cambodia. The B-52 heavy bomber, developed by Boeing in the late 1940s, helped the U.S. and South Vietnamese dominate the skies, along with smaller, more easily maneuverable fighter planes like the F-4 Phantom. Also widely used was the Bell UH-1 helicopter, dubbed the "Huey," which could fly at low altitudes and speeds and land easily in small spaces. U.S. forces used the Huey to transport troops, supplies and equipment, aid ground troops with additional firepower and evacuated killed or wounded soldiers.

Did you know? The U.S.-made M-16 rifle was redesigned in 1966 to perform better in the wet, dirty conditions that prevailed in ground combat during the Vietnam War, and it became the weapon most commonly associated with U.S. troops in the conflict.

Among the more devastating explosives used in U.S. and South Vietnamese bombing runs was napalm, a chemical compound developed during World War II. When mixed with gasoline and included in incendiary bombs or flamethrowers, napalm could be propelled greater distances than gasoline and released large amounts of carbon monoxide when it exploded, poisoning the air and causing even greater damage than traditional bombs. Though the large-scale U.S. and South Vietnamese aerial bombardment efforts damaged or destroyed much of the land and population of Vietnam, they proved less destructive to the enemy than expected, as North Vietnamese and Viet Cong troops fought an irregular style of guerrilla warfare that proved much more resilient than the Americans had hoped.

U.S. and South Vietnamese Artillery & Infantry Weapons

The M-48 tank, with mounted machine guns, could travel up to 30 mph and was used to provide support for U.S. and South Vietnamese troops. Due to Vietnam's soggy jungle terrain, tanks were not used extensively in combat during the Vietnam War. Armored personnel carriers such as the M-113 transported troops and performed reconnaissance and support functions. A common artillery weapon, previously used in World War II, was the 105mm howitzer, which could be towed behind a truck or carried by helicopter and dropped into position. Operated by crews of eight men each, the howitzers fired high-explosive shrapnel shells or "beehive" cartridges (thousands of small, sharp darts) at a rate of three to eight rounds per minute over a range of some 12,500 yards.

One of the most common infantry weapons used by U.S. troops in Vietnam was the M-60 machine gun, which could also be used as an artillery weapon when mounted or operated from a helicopter or tank. The gas-powered M-60 could fire up to 550 bullets in quick succession at a range of almost 2,000 yards, or at short range when fired from the shoulder. One drawback of the M-60 was the heavy weight of its cartridge belts, which limited the ammunition that soldiers could carry. Standard issue for infantrymen in Vietnam was the M-16, a gas-operated, magazine-fed rifle that could fire 5.56 mm-caliber bullets accurately over several hundred yards at 700-900 rounds per minute on its automatic setting; it could also be used as a semi-automatic. Its ammunition came in magazines of 20-30 rounds, making it relatively easy to reload.

North Vietnamese and Viet Cong Weapons in Vietnam

Most of the weapons, uniforms and equipment used by North Vietnamese and Viet Cong forces were manufactured by the Soviet Union and China. The portable, shoulder-fired SA-7 Grail missile was one of many anti-aircraft weapons extensively against American aircraft conducting bombing raids in North Vietnam. On the ground, the DP 7.62mm light machine gun (the equivalent to the U.S.-made M-60) was based on a Soviet design and manufactured in both the Soviet Union and China. The simple but deadly accurate AK-47, known to many as the "peasant's rifle," was shorter and heavier than the M-16, with a lower rate of fire (up to about 600 rounds per minute). It was extraordinarily durable, however, and was able to fire 7.62mm bullets either automatically or semi-automatically from a 30-round clip at a rate of up to about 600 rounds per minute, at a range of up to 435 yards. Another widely used semi-automatic rifle was the SKS carbine or "Chicom."

In addition to Soviet- or Chinese-supplied arms, Communist forces also carried weapons captured from the French and the Japanese in earlier Indochina wars or used weapons made by hand in Vietnam. Troops in the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) or the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) had access to more standard-issue clothing and weapons, while Viet Cong often used improvised weapons and wore peasant clothing to blend in to the South Vietnamese population.

Other Weapons Used in Vietnam

In addition to rifles and machine guns, U.S. infantry troops were armed with hand grenades (such as the Mark-2), which could be thrown or propelled using rifle-mounted launchers. Mines were used to guard the perimeter around campsites; they could be triggered by trip wires or exploded manually. In terms of chemical weapons, U.S. Air Force planes sprayed more than 19 million gallons of herbicides over 4.5 million acres of land in Vietnam from 1961 to 1972 as part of Operation Ranch Hand, a large-scale defoliation program aimed at eliminating forest cover for North Vietnamese and Viet Cong troops, as well as crops that might be used to feed them. The most commonly used defoliant, a mixture of herbicides containing the toxic dioxin and known as Agent Orange, was later revealed to cause serious health issues-including tumors, birth defects, rashes, psychological symptoms and cancer-among returning U.S. servicemen and their families as well as among large sections of the Vietnamese population.

For their part, North Vietnamese and particularly Viet Cong forces often used explosives captured from U.S. and South Vietnamese forces or cut open unexploded bombs to manufacture their own crude explosives. They also employed booby traps, including hidden bamboo maces or crossbows that could be triggered when soldiers stepped on a tripwire. One particularly common menace was the punji stake trap, a bed of sharpened bamboo stakes that was concealed in a pit for enemy soldiers to stumble across.

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Vietnam War: Weapons of the Air U.S. and South Vietnamese Artillery & Infantry Weapons North Vietnamese and Viet Cong Weapons in Vietnam Other Weapons Used in Vietnam From air power to infantry to chemicals, the weapons used in the Vietnam War were more devastating than those of any previous conflict.

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1960

Nov 6 - John F. Kennedy is elected president of the United States. Eisenhower gives his successor a warning regarding Vietnam and Laos.

Nov 11 - A failed coup attempt by the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) keeps President Ngo Dinh Diem in power.

Dec 20 - In an attempt to better fight the South Vietnam government and the US, the National Liberation Front of South Vietnam, aka the Viet Cong, was formed. This was an organization used by the Communist in later years to fight the US forces.

1961

May - After a visit by Lyndon B Johnson (vice-president); President Kennedy sends US Army Special forces to assist in the training of South Vietnam soldiers.

June - President Kennedy meets with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev in Vienna to discuss the attacks made by North Vietnam in Laos.

Oct - Because of the growing successful attacks by the NLF, Robert McNamara, the US Defense Secretary, deploys 200,000 US soldiers to Vietnam.

Dec 22 - The first casualty in the American forces dies in Vietnam, for many this marked the start of the Vietnam War.

1962

Jan - The US and South Vietnamese government put into action the Strategic Hamlet Program.

Feb 8 - President Kennedy forms the Military Assistance Command, Vietnam. Their purpose was to improve US assistance to the South Vietnamese regime.

Feb 27 - Ngo Dinh Diem survives an assassination attempt by South Vietnamese Viet Cong pilots.

Jul 23 - An agreement is signed designating Laos as a neutral country. Fourteen nations including the United States, North & South Vietnam, Communist China, and the Soviets sign the agreement.

1963

Jan 2 - The Battle of Ap Bac, Vietcong forces rout the ARVN.

May 8 - Buddhist monks march in protest against President Diem's government and are fired upon by South Vietnamese police.

Jun 11 - One of the Buddhist monks sets himself ablaze as part of the protest against the government.

Oct 2 - Defense Secretary McNamara informs the press the Kennedy administration intention of withdrawing US forces out of South Vietnam before 1965 ends.

Nov 1 - The Diem regime is overthrown by General Duong Van Minh, who was being backed by the United States. The next day, Ngo Dinh Diem and his brother, Ngô Ðình Nhu were assassinated.

Nov 22 - US President John F. Kennedy is assassinated in Dallas, Texas.

1964

Jan - General Duong Van Minh is placed under house arrest in a bloodless coup by Vietcong General Nguyen Khanh.

Apr - In New York City, more than 1000 students express their disapproval of the Vietnam War by burning their draft cards.

Apr 25 - Attack at Bien Hoa Air base by the Vietcong.

Jun - General William Westmoreland is named deputy commander of the MACV.

Aug 2 - Incident in the Gulf of Tonkin on the North Vietnam coast with USS Maddox involved.

Nov - Lyndon Johnson defeats Barry Goldwater in a landslide during the presidential elections of 1964.

1965

Feb 7 - A US air base in South Vietnam, Pleiku is attacked by the Viet Cong. Eight Americans died along with the wounding of 100.

Mar 2 - Operation Rolling Thunder is underway. This operation involved the sustained bombardment through the air by the Republic of Vietnam Air Force, US 2nd Air Division, and US Navy against North Vietnam. This took place through November 1968.

Mar 8 - Arrival of US Marines, the 3rd Marine Regiment and 3rd Marine Division arrive to protect Da Nang.

Mar 24 - Back in the US, the anti-war protest gains momentum with Teach-In programs broadcasted throughout the Nation's Universities.

Nov 14 - Fighting at the Ia Drang Valley. First major encounter between the North Vietnamese and the US Army regulars. This battle lasts for five days.

Dec 31 - More than 200,000 US soldiers arrive, compare this to the initial 3500 deployed earlier of the same year.

1967

Jan 8 - Operation Cedar Falls. A US armed forces only operation with a "search and destroy" mandate to eliminate what was known as the "Iron Triangle."

Apr 15 - Martin Luther King Jr. speaks out against the Vietnam war before 100,000 people at the UN Building in New York.

Apr - Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense, speaks on the futility of continued bombing of North Vietnam, saying that the consequences did not bode well for all concerned.

Oct 21 - Demonstrators numbering in the thousands march to the Pentagon in Washington DC to express their objection against the Vietnam War.

Dec 31 - US troops in Vietnam reach 485,000.

1968

Jan 30 - Military assault by North Vietnamese forces is launched against South Vietnam, the United States, and allies of the Republic of Vietnam.

Feb 28 - More American troops are requested by General William Westmoreland, he asks for 206,000.

Mar - 22,951 American soldiers die during combat.

Mar 16 - Hundreds of civilians, composed mainly of elderly men, women and children are massacred by an American platoon led by Lt. William Calley. The incident is famously known as the My Lai incident.

Mar 25 - Military advisors of President Lyndon Johnson insist on him finding a way to get America out of the war.

Apr 3 - Leader of North Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh, presents a proposal to begin discussions of peace with the US and the South Vietnamese government. Despite this gesture, US troops continue to arrive in Vietnam.

Jun 23 - Vietnam is recognized as the longest war the United States of America has been in, ever.

Nov 6 - Richard Millhouse Nixon is elected as the 37th president of the United States. He defeated Hubert Humphrey (Democrat) and George Wallace (Independent).

1969

Jan 25 - Peace talks between North and South Vietnam begin in Paris. The United States is involved in the talks.

Mar - Combat deaths of American soldiers number more than 33,629, this equaled those lost in the Korean War.

Mar 18 - Because Cambodia and Laos had been used by the North Vietnamese as a base of operations and sanctuaries, President Nixon secretly signs-off on the target bombing of those installations in those two countries. This is known as Operation Menu.

May - Nixon announces his intent on the "Vietnamization", train and transition South Vietnamese soldiers to do what the Americans had been doing, of the war. At this point, US troops numbered at 543,000. He later makes the promise to withdraw 25,000 US soldiers.

Sep 3 - Ho Chi Minh dies at the age of 79. According to his will, he wanted to have his body embalmed and to be placed on display at a mausoleum.

Nov 15 - Another anti-war protest in Washington DC takes place where more than 600,000 Americans rally at the Washington Monument.

Nov 16 - Nixon again makes the pledge to withdraw another 35,000 US soldiers out of the war in Vietnam.

Dec 15 - Another 50,000 of the US soldiers in Vietnam are scheduled to return home by April 1970, as promised by President Nixon.

* In 2000, de-classified records show that during the Johnson administration, the US Air Force had bombed rural areas near the South Vietnam-Cambodia border since 1964.

1970

Mar - More than 420,000 US soldiers are still in Vietnam, Nixon again promises to bring home over the next year another 150,000 soldiers.

Apr 30 - On a nationally televised announcement, President Nixon tells the American people that South Vietnamese and American forces had invaded Cambodia with the intent to cut off the aid being provided by Cambodia regime to the North Vietnamese government.

May 1 - In reaction to the announcement of the Cambodia invasion, a public demonstration ensues. The protest against the invasion is led by the students of Kent University.

May 4 - The National Guard was called in to help keep the peace at Kent University, as violence erupted, four students were shot, two were heading to class, and the other two were part of the protest group.

May 14 - Two more students fall victims to the anti-war protest, this time at Jackson State College in Mississippi. They were shot by the police.

1971

Mar - Lt. William Calley is charged with murder for his role at the My Lai incident that claimed lives of 22 Vietnamese civilians, he was sentenced to life in prison.

Apr 24 - Another protest march in Washington DC where more than 200,000 make their feelings known about their opposition to the war in Vietnam.

May - Both sides of Congress, House and Senate, vote to bring home all the troops currently in Vietnam by the end of the year.

Jul 1 - The voting age for all US citizens is lowered from 21 to 18 years of age, this was done through the ratification of the 26th Amendment.

1973

Jan 15 - Offensive action against North Vietnam was to cease as ordered by Nixon.

Jan 27 - The involvement of the US Military in the Vietnam War officially ended with the signing of the Paris Peace Accords. This event established a cease fire between the two Vietnams.

Feb - More than 600 American prisoners of war are released by the North Vietnamese.

Mar 29 - The United States last troop leave Vietnam, some military advisers and marines stay. More than three million Americans served in one way or another during the Vietnam War; of that number, one thousand were declared missing in action, 150,000 wounded, and up to 60,000 died.

Jun 4 - As the North Vietnamese government continued its attempt to unify the country under communist rule, U.S. Congress passes the Case-Church Amendment to prohibit the U.S. from intervention.

1975

Apr 21 - The North Vietnam wins the Battle of Xuan Loc.

Apr 29 - South Vietnam civilians tried to make a dash for it, impending doom in the form of North Vietnam was upon them. These civilians had been well aware of the invasion from the North and did not want to be a part of it, some succeeded to leave, others were not as fortunate. In 18-hours, over 1,000 Americans and 7,000 Vietnamese were flown out of Saigon.

Apr 30 - The end result was the eventual Fall of Saigon. Saigon was the capital of South Vietnam, it was captured by the Vietnam People's Army. This date, is the official end of the Vietnam War. It is today known as the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

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Vietnam War Timeline - Major Events Before & During Việt Nam War

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After the first World War, in an attempt to creating an independent Vietnam against the French and a nationalist government, Hồ Chí Minh petitions US President Woodrow Wilson for assistance, but is refused. The reason may be due to the Communist leanings of Hồ Chí Minh.

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The Things They Carried

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"The Things They Carried," 20 Years Later

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Commentary on The Things They Carried

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The war wasn't all terror and violence. Sometimes things could almost get sweet. For instance, I remember a little boy with a plastic leg. I remember how he hopped over to Azar and asked for a chocolate bar-"GI number one," the kid said-and Azar laughed and handed over the chocolate. When the boy hopped away, Azar clucked his tongue and said, "War's a bitch." He shook his head sadly. "One leg, for Chrissake. Some poor fucker ran out of ammo."

-from The Things They Carried

Imagine the censor's horror in the sixties and seventies: journalists running amok in the trenches, hitching rides into combat on the backs of convoys, snapping photos of Vietnam casualties. In a war that measured its victory in Viet Cong bodies, photographs became a tangible unit for American loss-limbless GIs, an assembly line of coffins-these images made it home from Vietnam when our soldiers did not.

Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried is a montage of graphic scenes: "Curt Lemon hanging in pieces from a tree"; "The day Azar strapped the puppy to a Claymore antipersonnel mine and squeezed the firing device"; "Kiowa sinking into the deep mulch of a shit field." Like the photographs, O'Brien provides a more substantive reality that has no heroes or valor. Men die from boredom, error, and fear. They persist out of cowardice. Violence occurs almost accidently, without warning, and for the sake of itself. "You can tell a true war story by its absolute and uncompromising allegiance to obscenity and evil," he writes. A "true" war story must shock the conscience.

Because footage of dead American soldiers was such an important vehicle for Vietnam's anti-war movement, in 1991, during the first Gulf War, the Pentagon banned media coverage of flag-draped coffins returning home. The military argued that the ban protected "the privacy and dignity of the families," while critics contested that it censored the human cost of war. In 2009, the policy was reversed with one condition: the family of the deceased must give consent. Of the 4,000 troops that have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have only seen a handful of coffins and corpses, and our empathy has suffered for it.

The Things They Carried has been challenged because of profanity three times. At high schools in Pennsylvania (retained), Mississippi (banned), and Illinois (retained); in 2001, 2003, and 2007, respectively; the years we declared war on Afghanistan and Iraq and the year General David Petraeus asked for and received an additional 20,000 troops to fight in Iraq. A decade after its publication, and almost three decades after our war ended in Vietnam, O'Brien's book was challenged for the very first time.

When my 9th grade English class read The Things They Carried, our discussion did not include its history. We didn't ask ourselves who might challenge the book and why. Enlistment was not part of our reality-I don't think a service academy ever set foot in our Brooklyn Heights private school-and none of my high school classmates have since joined the war. It's only now, after returning to O'Brien, that I realize his censor has a human face: a school director and reverend in Pennridge, PA., a grandparent in Lucedale, MS., and a foster mother in Arlington Heights, IL.

Like the photographs that returned home from the front, like O'Brien's depiction of Vietnam, the controversy behind his book provides a more substantive reality: human motive is more complicated than demographics might suggest. What motivates a high school parent to challenge a book has less to do with politics, perhaps, and more to do with the human heart.

To permit a book, to read a book, is not enough. We must engage with its history. Ask who challenges a text and for what reasons. When we read a book, let's read with a mind for its censors: what is that thing inside The Things They Carried that stirs a parent's need to protect?

The Illinois mother lost her fight to ban O'Brien, but she succeeded in energizing her community. 1,000 people participated in what became a five-hour book-banning debate. Let's take care not to censor the censor. Let's be grateful for the chance to defend our favorite books. And never take for granted our freedom to read them. O'Brien's reality has no winning side, no singular truth-instead, the trenches are steeped in antonyms. Balanced by opposing forces. One harmonious, human breath.

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On Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried - PEN America

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The Things They Carried has been challenged because of profanity three times. At high schools in Pennsylvania (retained), Mississippi (banned), and Illinois (retained); in 2001, 2003, and 2007, respectively; the years we declared war on Afghanistan and Iraq and the year General David Petraeus asked for and received an additional 20,000 troops to fight in Iraq.

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In war, there are no winners. That's what readers take away from Tim O'Brien's book about the Vietnam War, The Things They Carried, in the 20 years since its publication.

O'Brien wrote parts of The Things They Carried 20 years after his service in Vietnam. 40 years since the war, he still carries it with him. "I carry the memories of the ghosts of a place called Vietnam - the people of Vietnam, my fellow soldiers," he tells host Neal Conan. "More importantly," he continues, "I carry the weight of responsibility, and a sense of abiding guilt."

But O'Brien carries joyful memories, too, "the friends I made, the conversations at foxholes where, for a moment or two, the war would seem to vanish into camaraderie and friendship."

Still, the memories of near-death moments remain the most vivid. "There's something about being amid the chaos and the horror of a war that makes you appreciate all you don't have, and all you may lose forever." Those things range, for O'Brien, from "the sublime, your parents, down to the petty - a Big Mac, and a cold Coke. When you're really really thirsty and you're drinking paddy water, the mind will lock on a can of cold Coke the way your mind might, you know, back in high school, have locked on a pretty girl."

O'Brien never anticipated the universal appeal his story would have among young people. They "bring such fervor to it that comes from their own lives, really. The book is... applied to a bad childhood or a broken home. And these are the things they're carrying."

NEAL CONAN, host:

This is TALK OF THE NATION. Im Neal Conan in Washington.

Twenty years ago, writer Tim O'Brien released a book of stories about young men and war, his war, Vietnam. Among many other things, he listed the weight of each soldier's clothes, canteens and can openers.

From the book: Every third or fourth man carried a claymore antipersonnel mine, 3.5 pounds with its firing device. They all carried fragmentation grenades, 14 ounces each. They all carried at least one M-18 colored smoke grenade, 24 ounces. Some carried CS or tear gas grenades. Some carried white phosphorous grenades. They carried all they could bear and then some, including a silent awe for the terrible power of the things they carried.

And that's also the title of that book of stories. "The Things They Carried" is now a staple of college and high school English classes, celebrated as one of the most important books about the experience of war.

The author joins us in just a moment. Today, we want to hear from veterans. What did you carry? What do you still carry? Tell us your story. Our phone number is 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our Web site. Thats at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION.

Later in the hour, the great play-by-play man Jon Miller, on the art of play by play. But first, novelist and National Book Award winner Tim O'Brien joins us here in Studio 3A. Nice to have you back on the program.

Mr. TIM O'BRIEN (Author, "The Things They Carried"): Great to be here, thanks.

CONAN: And parts of that book were framed from a distance of 20 years. It's now another 20 years since you wrote the book. What do you still carry?

Mr. O'BRIEN: Well, I carry the memories or the ghosts of a place called Vietnam, the people of Vietnam, my fellow soldiers. More importantly, I guess, I carry the weight of responsibility and a sense of abiding guilt. I carry joyful memories, too, friends I made and the conversations at foxholes where, for a moment or two, the war would seem to vanish into camaraderie and friendship.

The wars don't end when you sign peace treaties or when the years go by. They will echo on until I'm gone and all the widows and orphans are gone.

CONAN: In some ways, you write how the experience of being close to death so often made things extremely vivid. Do those remain the most vivid memories of your life?

Mr. O'BRIEN: Very much so. I just finished talking with a group of high school students here in D.C., and the conversation eventually got to just that question. And there's something about being amid the chaos and the horror of a war that makes you appreciate all you don't have and all you may lose forever, which goes from the sublime, your parents, down to the petty, the Big Mac and a cold Coke. When you're really, really thirsty and you're drinking paddy water, the mind will lock on a can of cold Coke the way your mind might, you know, back in high school lock on a pretty girl.

CONAN: Does it surprise you that all these years later, your book is taught in high schools around the country?

Mr. O'BRIEN: Yes. I had written the book for adults. I had imagined an audience of literate people on subways and going to work and in their homes reading the book. But I certainly hadnt imagined 14-year-old kids and 18-year-olds and those even in their early-20s reading the book and bringing such fervor to it, which comes from their own lives, really.

The book was taken is applied to a bad childhood or a broken home, and these are the things theyre carrying. And in a way, it's extremely flattering, and other times, it can be depressing.

I had a kid come up to me not long ago, though a book-signing line and say, yours is the only book I've ever finished. And of course, it was meant in a flattering way, and I took it that way, but in the back of my mind, I thought, God, all the pleasure that this kid has denied himself.

CONAN: Yeah, but he's got all those great books in front of him.

Mr. O'BRIEN: That's the thing. It opens a door. Some of these kids is the wrong word. It sounds, you know, sort of derogatory. These human beings who are young, a door's been closed to them through their own doing or that of their parents or their schools. Who knows why? And if a book can open that gateway or that doorway and encourage someone to find the pleasures of reading, then what a great thing to have accomplished in your life.

CONAN: Here's one of those literate people, writing with an email, Shannon(ph) in Lyndhurst, Ohio. I'm a professor and I've been teaching your novel for six years now and consistently fall in love with it every time I read it. What I would like to know is: What is the single most important message you would like your readers to take away from the novel? P.S. my students love to hate Azar. I say that because you are Azar.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. O'BRIEN: Well said. Oh goodness, to take one thing away, it's a little bit like having a piece of cloth, you know, unravel a strand and the cloth dissolves as you look at the strand.

The goal, I suppose, any fiction writer has, no matter what your subject, is to hit the human heart and the tear ducts and the nape of the neck and to make a person feel something about the characters are going through and to experience the moral paradoxes and struggles of being human.

And in a way, for me, although on the surface, of course, it is a book about war, it's I've never thought of it, really, that way in my heart. Even when I was writing it, it seemed to be a book about storytelling and the burdens we all accumulate through our lives, our moms and dads and backyards, teachers, which I mean, my dad died, I don't know, four years ago, and he is as gone as anybody I knew in Vietnam.

But like the ghosts of Vietnam, all I need do is, you know, close my eyes a moment and there he is throwing me a baseball. And there's something about carrying the image of him, the symbol, the emblem of carrying that, at least in my experience, is pretty important to being human, I mean.

CONAN: We're talking about "The Things They Carried," and we're asking veterans to call us today to tell us about the things they carried and the things they continue to carry, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. And we'll begin with Jeff(ph), Jeff calling us from Des Moines.

JEFF (Caller): Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my call.

CONAN: Sure.

JEFF: I was just telling your screener, I'm an Iraq War veteran. I was there in 2005, 2006, and there's never really thought about it, but there's three things I carry with me every day. I still wear my dog tags every day. I'm retired now. And I've got a P-38 can opener from...

CONAN: Those things work better than most everything.

Mr. O'BRIEN: They do.

JEFF: And when I was in Iraq, my driver made wristbands out of 550 cord for everybody in the section, and I wear that every day.

CONAN: What's 550 cord?

JEFF: 550 cord is a nylon cord that if you've ever been in the infantry, it's got a million-and-one uses, probably some I haven't learned yet, but pretty much every infantry that I was ever in...

CONAN: The ones you don't know about are probably the ones in the manual.

JEFF: Yeah, probably, probably. But I wear a suit and tie every day, and a lot of people comment that that's a little jarring to see a piece of green nylon braided into a wristband on my wrist, but I wear it every day, so - just to remember that time, so...

CONAN: And what do you take away, Jeff?

JEFF: You know, I think it's because I was in the military for so long, I hope nobody takes offense at this, but that's a completely different world than the civilian world. And it reminds me of all of my experiences in the past and a lot of good memories. So, I don't know. It's habit now, but...

CONAN: Well, Jeff, thanks very much for the call, appreciate it.

JEFF: You bet, thank you. Bye.

CONAN: Bye-bye. You don't still have your P-38, do you, Tim?

Mr. O'BRIEN: I wish I did. You're right, that thing worked, and most of the can openers I use these days, you know, break in three minutes.

CONAN: Yeah, they do. Terry's(ph) on the line, Terry with us from Gainesville.

TERRY (Caller): Hi.

CONAN: Go ahead, Terry.

TERRY: I've still got my P-38.

CONAN: Oh well, maybe you can make those for the civilian market.

TERRY: Actually, you can get them still through Ranger Joe's at Fort Benning.

CONAN: All right.

TERRY: But I also carry shrapnel in my leg, a bitterness.

CONAN: Where'd you collect the shrapnel, Terry?

TERRY: My last I spent my first nine months as a rifleman and a squad leader west of Chu Lai in 198th Light Infantry. And the last three months, I managed to get a job as the door gunner on an observation ship and I got hit carrying a marine artillery observer out of Da Nang.

You know, I'd like to say that one of the things that I still carry is the wonder that people voted to keep us there. I came back and joined Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and I found that you couldn't tell anybody what you had witnessed. Without having some experience, it just, they either didn't want to hear it or they couldn't relate to it.

But the people that sent us there and kept us there, I count Johnson and Nixon and Kissinger and the rest of them, they knew that we weren't there to do anything but have a geopolitical influence on the Russians. Unfortunately, I didn't do a research project on why we were in Vietnam until after I got back, and the reasons were not what they told us.

CONAN: It's interesting...

TERRY: I got nobody to blame but myself, but I felt very foolish for having trusted the government with my life.

CONAN: Terry, it's interesting what you say about stories. A lot of Tim O'Brien's book is about war stories and how, if you if they sound believable, they're almost certainly not.

Mr. O'BRIEN: Yeah, thats - I mean, I identify with virtually everything that our caller just talked about. I, too, was in the 198th Light Infantry Brigade near Chu Lai.

TERRY: All right. Way to go 198th.

Mr. O'BRIEN: Yes. Our AO was area of operations was near where the My Lai Massacre occurred, Quang Ngai Province. And my memories are much like yours, and I think I carry with me the same thing you're carrying.

CONAN: Terry, thanks very much for the call, appreciate it. It's 20 years since "The Things They Carried" hit the store shelves. We'll talk more with author Tim O'Brien in just a moment. We also want to hear from veterans today. What did you carry? What do you still carry? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. I'm Neal Conan. Stay with us. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

(Soundbite of music)

CONAN: This is TALK OF THE NATION. Im Neal Conan in Washington.

More than two million copies of "The Things They Carried" have sold since 1990. It's been read and passed around by countless veterans from Vietnam to the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tim O'Brien's book has also been optioned for a film, but so far it's not made it to the big screen.

Now to mark the 20th anniversary, a new hardcover edition is out. To read a selection about the acidic boredom of war, you can go to our Web site at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION.

Tim O'Brien is with us here in Studio 3A. We want to hear from veterans today. What did you carry? What do you still carry? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our Web site. Thats at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION.

And let's go next to Rich, and Rich is with us from Sunman in Indiana.

RICH (Caller): Yes, sir. I actually carry two things personally. I do have a P-38, and I also have what Air Force crew chiefs called a church key, which was your normal, everyday, metal can opener.

I was a crew chief on 141s and KC-135s during the very end of the Vietnam War, stationed with the 619th Mass at Hickam Air Force Base, and during the first Gulf War I was stationed with the 512th aircraft generational squadron out at Dover Air Force Base.

But the things that I don't personally carry, but I used to carry every day, were the coffins coming back from Vietnam, the nuclear warheads coming back out of I guess I can say it today, Subic Bay, because we used to catch them at Barbers Point Naval Air Station outside of Hickam Air Force Base. And the nights that I spent at Dover during the first Gulf War with 145,000 to 150,000 pounds of JP4 on a C-5 and 30 to 40,000 pounds of small arms and rocket ammunitions or motors, and you would see the lightning and then all of a sudden...

CONAN: Oh boy. JP4 is jet fuel, by the way.

RICH: You can't refuel anymore, you know?

CONAN: Oh boy. It's hard to believe, isn't it, Rich? I was just talking with Tim O'Brien, just before we started on the show, that it was 20 years after his tour that he wrote this book. It's 20 years since then, but it's almost 20 years since the first Gulf War.

RICH: The first Gulf War. It's almost hard to believe. I mean, I went in as a kid. I entered the Air Force in 1973, my senior year of high school, and then I went back, joined the Reserves and was in the Reserves for about 18 months, got called up, I believe it was in September of 1989 to go active duty during the first Gulf War.

And I was still a staff sergeant because I had been out for that long, and I was the old man, and it was hard to believe that the things that we put on the shoulders of the young people in the military, because I had been out long enough to say I'd worked now for Proctor & Gamble for a while, you know, and things were important, but they weren't like it was when, you know, you go out there and you're sitting on that bird, and there's lightning and stuff around you.

You, you back then you didn't think about it, but then that was when I was 17, 18, 19, 20. Now you get up to 35, and you say, man, you know, I could be gone in a split second. I mean, we did lose a bird at Dover, got hit with lightning, and it tore the wing off between Number 2 and Number 3 engine, you know?

CONAN: Wow. That is the reminder that is consistent in your book, not just the what you then considered an old man looking back you're a much older man now but the incredible youth of, well, you and the others in Alpha Company.

Mr. O'BRIEN: Yeah, at the time it seemed I was among people who were fairly mature. I mean, looking back on it, these were 19, 20, 21-year-olds. People who at the time looked ancient to me turned out to be 27 or 28.

It's I think it's an important reminder for all of us that those who do our killing and our dying, they're not kids exactly, but they're not they're certainly not mature adults who have been schooled by life and what life can deliver to us. And that is a lesson probably worth tucking away.

CONAN: Email from Charles in Portland, Oregon: I wasn't old enough to serve during the Vietnam War. My step-brother was. I made a knife sheath for him out of leather that held his fixed-blade knife, and it had another compartment for a pair of needle-nose pliers that he found useful for a variety of purposes. I could imagine how that could be useful.

Let's see if we can go next to this is Daniel, Daniel with us from Greenville in Tennessee.

DANIEL (Caller): Yes, sir. I was in First Battalion, Second Marines in Somalia. At the time I was a 19-year-old kid and I picked up there and I've carried since an empathy for other people's suffering. And now I currently work in the mental health field, and I want to thank Mr. O'Brien because when I was in college his book was one of the books that we studied.

CONAN: That was after your tour in Somalia, I understand.

DANIEL: Yes, sir, and it was kind of cathartic for me, actually.

Mr. O'BRIEN: I'm delighted to hear that. I was talking with Neal before the show started and saying that books can sometimes have impacts on human lives that go way beyond what an author intends as the book is being written. And you can help people in ways you would never expect. I'm delighted to hear it. Maybe it helped you a little.

DANIEL: Thank you very much, sir.

CONAN: And Daniel, the things you still carry - I wonder, every day you hear about another ship being taken by pirates off the coast of Somalia or about the gun battles erupting between the government that holds three square blocks of downtown Mogadishu and the warlords. What do you think?

DANIEL: Actually, you know, at the time I was too young to truly understand, but I think we as a nation and as a military service did a major disservice to the Somali people. We left them in a vacuum that, you know, we were there to kind of take that vacuum away, but we left it almost in a worse condition than it was.

CONAN: Daniel, thanks very much, appreciate it.

DANIEL: Yes, sir.

CONAN: Bye-bye. Let's go next this is Chris(ph), Chris calling us from Fort Myers, Florida.

CHRIS (Caller): Yes, hi. Hi, Mr. O'Brien. It's an extreme pleasure to speak with you today. I actually was first introduced to the "The Things They Carried" in Dewitt Henry's(ph) class at Emerson, and I always have three copies of your book: one that I keep completely clean, one that I use for notes as an English teacher, and one that I kind of use for notes as a writer and a learner.

And I think you're crucial to me having been a now-published author myself, if only for the reason that I wear my Red Sox hat with all my book covers because Mr. O'Brien does it, so I can do it too.

(Soundbite of laughter)

CONAN: We like you anyway, Chris.

CHRIS: Of all the amazing things you've given me, probably the most crucial to my development as a person is you gave an arena for my father and I to talk, and I think I'm 35, and I think a lot of my generation, Vietnam is a lost topic for us because our fathers don't want to talk about what happened to them. The memories are too close and too horrific.

And through "The Things They Carried," my dad and I were actually able to have conversations about his time in Vietnam, which ultimately led to me and he's very sick right now, actually, but it led to us being able to have conversations about each other. And so it really became this place where him and I could go to, when we couldn't talk about anything. We'd talk about your work and use that as a vehicle to discuss war and what he had experienced but also who he was as a person.

Mr. O'BRIEN: That's a great thing to hear. You know, the rewards of being a writer can include, you know, awards and money and that sort of thing, but a story like yours is the one that makes me remember being 24 years old and setting out on a career to be a writer.

I hear from disparate sources stories sort of like yours. I had a letter from a young woman, a 26-year-old woman in Minneapolis, a story kind of like yours. My dad was quiet and there was trouble in the family, and my mom was trying to explain to me why she had never been able to fall in love with my father, who had been in Vietnam, at least not wholly in love.

And in AP English class she encountered the book, gave it to her dad. He began talking. The mother began talking. They went to counseling, and they're still together. They're not perfect, but they're happy. And a thing like that makes me want to cry because that is nudging up against my intent in writing that book, not to heal that family in particular but to have a book transcend bombs and bullets and in some way or another worm its way into the human spirit or heart. So thanks.

CHRIS: Well, thank you very much.

CONAN: Chris, thanks very much for the phone call, appreciate it.

CHRIS: Thank you.

CONAN: Bye-bye. Let's see if we can go next to this is Brian, Brian calling us from Birmingham, Alabama.

BRIAN (Caller): Hey, how are you guys doing this afternoon?

CONAN: Not too bad.

BRIAN: Hey. I just want to thank you for your book, because, yeah, I went through a couple combat situations, and I didn't know I was one of the, like these kids that are coming back now and the kids that came back from Vietnam. I was one of those kids, and I didn't know how to talk it out. I didn't know how to get help (unintelligible) I was in my world all by myself, in this pretty much world of hell, you know, my brain.

And I read your book. I read "Chicken Soup for the Veteran's Soul," little things like that. Yeah, I went in with an open mind, but, yeah, I kind of figure, okay, this is just another pile of garbage to just throw onto the stack, you know, and the self-help books. But it actually - it opened my eyes to make me realize that there are other guys out there like me. And it made me wonder, well, you know, (unintelligible) counseling, you know? I signed up for VA medical benefits, stuff like that. And it really helped me.

And I just really want to say thank you, because, I mean, it's funny because my wife, you know, she's a couple of years younger than me, but, you know, I'm from the Northeast, she's from Alabama, but she never had anything to do with the military.

Mr. O'BRIEN: Mm-hmm.

BRIAN: And she has a father that was early 80s, you know, no combat or anything, so she really didn't know how to ask me questions. And it's been, you know - because of your book and other books like that, you know, and the counseling, it's actually made me be able to explain to her the stuff that I went through and, you know, be able just to talk about it instead of just keeping it in and let it become like a little bomb.

CONAN: Yeah. Brian, those of us on the radio side here, thank you for your judicious use of the word garbage.

(Soundbite of laughter)

BRIAN: Oh, yes, no problem. I have some family that worked for the NPR in Boston area so I understand.

(Soundbite of laughter)

CONAN: Trained.

BRIAN: (Unintelligible)

CONAN: Thanks very much, Brian.

BRIAN: And I also have a P-38 also.

CONAN: Really?

BRIAN: And I actually use it today as a screwdriver.

(Soundbite of laughter)

BRIAN: But I just wanted to say (unintelligible) one. Thanks again, guys.

CONAN: Bye-bye. Here's an email that we have, and this from Matt in Palmyra, Virginia. Tim, I've read your books in reverse order. Just finished your memoir, "If I Die in a Combat Zone." The thing I carry in - is a father-in-law who was a captain and reminds me of the hard-edged, anti-hippie, hard-drinking captain who took you out that night to set mines. He doesn't talk about the experience at all. How do I approach the subject or should I leave his memories to himself?

Mr. O'BRIEN: Probably a little of both. I think in the end that there are all kinds of reasons for silence. It can go anywhere from trauma to simple politeness.

War is a party pooper of a topic. You don't go to a cocktail party and say, hey, you want to hear about Nam or Iraq. Out of politeness one stays silent sometimes, at least in my own case, because I have no idea where to start, where to end, what to choose to talk about. It's overwhelming, and therefore you go quiet out of a kind of nervous - the daunting task ahead of where do you begin and where do you end.

So to encourage through books or movies is a starting place. And if a person wants to talk, that person will talk. I certainly don't think that enforced conversation is going to help anyone. But to open the door to conversation through art, not a terrible idea.

CONAN: We're talking with Tim O'Brien. His book, "The Things They Carried," came out 20 years ago. I think it was 20 years ago yesterday.

Mr. O'BRIEN: Yes, it was.

CONAN: You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

It's interesting you're talking about art. Do you watch movies about war? Do you watch?

Mr. O'BRIEN: When they're good or if I'm told they're good I will. I saw a great film called "The Messenger." Have you seen this movie yet?

CONAN: Yeah.

Mr. O'BRIEN: Man, I thought it was - not in a war, but knocking on doors. And I really was touched by it. And I thought it was beautifully acted and had me in tears. Others bore me.

(Soundbite of laughter)

CONAN: Did you see "The Hurt Locker?"

Mr. O'BRIEN: I haven't seen it yet. No. Is it good?

CONAN: Yeah. It's good. It's interesting. I wonder also, the TV series, "The Pacific." Have you been watching that?

Mr. O'BRIEN: No. I've been on the road. So I think - didn't it just come out?

CONAN: Yeah, it just started a couple of weeks ago.

Mr. O'BRIEN: No, I haven't seen it.

CONAN: It's interesting. You should give it - it's challenging in a sense - I've studied that particular battle there in Guadalcanal at the moment. And I've been there, and it helps to have been there and seen these sights.

Mr. O'BRIEN: I'll bet.

CONAN: But on the other hand, it so accurately transmits the absolute sense of confusion and chaos. I'm amazed they took such risks with the lack of, you know, coherent narrative.

Mr. O'BRIEN: That's good. I'm glad to hear they're doing it that way. I mean that's my recollection of war, is chaos and which - where am I and why am I here and where are they? Utter lost feeling, almost like being trapped in a bad dream.

CONAN: Let's see if we can get another caller in on this conversation. Let's go to Ed. Ed's with us from Traverse City in Michigan.

ED (Caller): Good afternoon, gentlemen. Sorry, I did not read your book. I will - it'll be the first thing on my agenda.

CONAN: Eight million and one.

ED: Well, I had served many years ago in many different fashions. But the thing I would like to most share about the war today is how sterilized it is on television and how people can see it and go, wow, that looks bad and then turn away and then turn on another channel, and not really look in the eye of the other soldier who is fighting and dying just for what they believe in as well. And I have - unfortunately have had that...

CONAN: And where was that, Ed?

ED: In Panama, in '89, for Just Cause. And I was also activated in support of Somalia, which was another interesting (unintelligible) it's an interesting deal to watch a 10-year-old kid holding an AK-47 that was darn near as tall as he is. It was just unreal. But going back to the Panama thing, you know, taking someone's life, looking in their eye up close and personal, knowing that it's just someone else, they might have kids, they might be somebody's brother, somebody's son, father. That's what war is all about. And I think Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg are geniuses and I think that they have captured what it's really about. I mean, I know nothing about World War II, but I - I don't know, I give it to World War II veterans that I was even able to serve.

CONAN: Ed, I hope you tell that kid we hear in the background, you tell that kid your stories.

ED: That's my youngest. And he's keeping me running. But I try not to tell it because I still haven't - because when I got out of Panama, PSTD(ph) was nonexistent. My way of dealing with that was selling off every gun I owned in my house because I got tired of waking up in the middle of the night and shooting howler monkeys and snakes and spiders and PDF, Panamanian Defense Force guys...

CONAN: Mm-hmm.

ED: I got holes in my walls. So that's how I dealt with that.

CONAN: Ed, thank you very much for the call. Appreciate it. And Tim O'Brien, thank you so much for sharing your time today.

Mr. O'BRIEN: Great pleasure. Thanks for having me.

CONAN: Twenty years after "The Things They Carried."

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In war, there are no winners. That's what readers take away from Tim O'Brien's book about the Vietnam War, The Things They Carried, in the 20 years since its publication. O'Brien shares what he carries from his time in Vietnam.

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