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It shows how little women played a role as they were only taught to be housewives, take care of children, and follow the orders of their husbands. Lady Catherine tries to fulfill these norms by asking Elizabeth not to marry Darcy, but Elizabeth wants to be able to make her own choices and not follow the orders of someone else.

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I feel like having pride is good and it can often make someone feel confident in themselves, but if you have too much pride it can often have more negative than positive consequences and can really diminish someone's self worth.

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I agree with Bryan's response because I also see how people during that time period believed that social status should motivate marriage, but it is through the evolution of these characters that shows how love is the most important thing when discussing marriage. That also relates to how people value marriage today because love is the number one factor in why two people marry.

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As opposed to yesterday's excerpts, Lady Catherine introduces the idea that women are supposed to suck up to people of higher status and follow their directions. Through Lady Catherine's choice of words, it makes it clear that social status was supposed to have a great effect on determining who could marry. She leads in by saying that Elizabeth should not be able to marry Darcy and asks her to promise not to, but Elizabeth sticks by her beliefs that people should be able to make their own choices, regardless of social status.

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We can see that woman are basically just there to follow orders and make everyone else happy. Women, especially lower class women, are bossed around a lot and they are expected to listen to those above them. For example, when Lady Catherine says that Elizabeth should not marry Darcy, Lizzy is expected to do as she says because she is of a higher class.

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I agree with Lauren, pride is important because it is essentially confidence, you should feel confident about yourself and who you are. However, when pride starts affecting others and you may act like you are better than others, then that is too much pride.

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I agree with Caroline that the media has only served to exacerbate these characteristics and place them on full display in society.

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Of course this trend continues today, but it is motivated by different factors. Jealousy is a pervasive human trait.

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Pride is certainly a good thing in a small amount. Having faith and self-confidence in yourself can allow you to do a great many things. However, in today's section the dangers of an overabundance of pride is clearly shown. This is represented in Mr. Darcy's aunt who was too prideful to allow a marriage of love rather than a beneficial arraigned one.

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Caroline's point about modern marriages being more about love than Austen's time while still being seen, if just in a lesser number. I like how she pointed out the change and compared the time periods.

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I agree with Haley in that the primary impetus for marriage has evolved over the centuries.

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Marriage, especially in the echelon of society discussed in the narrative, was primarily fueled by a desire to maintain prestigious bloodlines. In today's zeitgeist, marriage is more often a union between two people solely on the basis of their love and affection for one another.

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I certainly agree with Lauren that maintaining a meticulous and careful balance of pride and humility is crucial to retaining one's morality.

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Pride is certainly a necessity, but in moderation. If one is not proud of their accomplishments, then what motivates them? This being said, when pride evolves into hubris, then it can be pernicious to oneself and others.

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It is interesting to see how familial values have devolved since this period. As we typically associate the prioritization of individualism with Western Cultures while the family unit is emphasized traditionally in the East.

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We observe that women, especially those born into affluence, were expected to act in a docile, subordinate, and obedient fashion whilst ensuring that they appeal to wealthy men who can provide their family with wealth through a dowry.

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I agree with Khaden agreeing with Jack he provided me with even more insight about jacks initial revelation, and I concur that jacks initial perspective was superb, and Khadens analysis of jacks original analysis was marvelous and served as an enlightenment towards me.

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I agree with Abbey, as after the second day of reading we see even more of the rivalry between women except this time Elizabeth is faced with the very rude and self-centered Lady Catherine. She rues Elizabeth because Mr. Darcy proposed to her, as her nephew was to marry him and belittles Elizabeth, her mother, and her house for being lower class. Many stories like to put women against each other in this form of rivalry, the only thing that changes are the situations and circumstances of that era. Lots of times, this divide or conflict is over a man.

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We learn that marriage between social classes is seen as a negative thing. People in higher classes will try to actively stop marriage of their family members to people of lower classes. I believe that some of this may still go on today but it has decreased a lot since this time period

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There is a division of the social class and who they chose to marry. With marriage they want to maintain their reputation and marry their equal or someone above. I agree with what Christian said and I think he summed up the same ideas I have.

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Having pride is a balancing game. It's not a good look to come across as cocky and thinking you're better than everyone. So I suggest having some pride, but remaining humble enough to know you're not above anyone.

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We learn that certain people can not marry because of the reputations and stature of their families. My response is that its stupid because people should be able to marry who they love, that will lead to more happy couples. I dont think it goes on as much, but certain parents who are over involved in their kid's lives probably sill care.

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I agree with Haley. During Austen's time, many marriages were about security and gaining/maintaining social status. However, Darcy wanted to marry Elizabeth for love. I think that both of these motives for marriage are prevalent in today's society as well. Many people marry for love like Darcy did, while others have arranged marriages like we saw with Lady Catherine trying to marry her daughter and nephew together (though the idea of marrying family members is a lot less socially acceptable today).

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During this time marriage between classes was seen as taboo. People of different classes are ridiculed for marrying someone in a different class. There is also arranged marriages and even marriages between family members to keep people of the same class

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I believe that having pride is good, but only in a small degree because too much of anything is bad. Pride is fueled by ones belief of their own self-worth and the dignity that they believe they have. In the beginning, it is very evident that Darcy is too prideful, which is shown from Elizabeth's rejection of his marriage proposal. However, throughout the passage, Elizabeth's emotions towards Darcy have changed, which brought up the topic of pride. The evolution of the characters shows how they have come to an understanding on the importance of not being too prideful. Darcy accepts the fact that he showed too much pride and apologized for it and Elizabeth was able to teach Darcy a little bit about humility. That is why too much pride got in the way of both Darcy and Elizabeth being happy in the beginning of the passage.

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Some Pride is good, because that leads to confidence and motivation to meet your own expectations. However, when you start to see yourself as above others, thats when you are too prideful.

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I agree with Caroline about how prestigious the upper-classmen act to those they presume to be lower than them. However, I feel as though this has nothing to do with Catherine's unreasonable wishes and being hypocritical, but rather they are used to being treated like royalty by those in situations similar to Elizabeth's, so any respect from them is expected by Catherine based on her upbringing and habits.

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I agree with Kamren and McMillan. I do believe that these rivalries/tensions still exist today (especially in the media) but they are not nearly as bad as they used to be during Austen's time.

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This section adds on another consideration, to yesterday's section, of marriages arraigned since birth. It also deals with marrying his first cousin which a lot of people would see as scandalous. This arraigned marriage however seemed to be more like preparation for their marriage while the people involved still would have a choice on who they want to be engaged to. This could be seen as similar to modern times if you can still chose who you want to marry even if your family wants you to marry someone else.

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Like we saw yesterday with Darcy, today's readings proved even further that there is a big division between social class and manners. In today's readings, Lady Catherine acted extremely rude and entitled. She also is super hypocritical, as calls Elizabeth "selfish" for not respecting Lady Catherine's unreasonable wishes (Lady Catherine is actually the selfish one-- she thinks the entire world revolves around her.)

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From yesterday's excerpts, it was expected for women of a lower social class to marry rich and serve their husbands. However, from todays excerpt with Lady Catherine, I noticed that during this time, women who are not as wealthy or are in a lower social class are expected to submit to the higher classes. This provides a clear contradiction-- Elizabeth is first expected to marry Darcy, and then she is expected by Lady Catherine to stay out of her way and not get married to Darcy. This contradiction shows that women in a lower class cannot do right and please everyone.

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In Austen's time, marriage for the lower class is a way to move up in society and decrease one's poverty, while the upper class appears to have the intentions of keeping their bloodline rich and pure of any lesser persons. These values are sometimes seen today, I feel as though it is beginning to become outdated though as people marry for love, as Darcy is intending to. The concept of arranged marriages are more of a match to the ideas reflected in the novel.

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I find it strange that Lady Catherine's expectations were to force Lizzy to allow Catherine to control Darcy's future despite any word or interests of Darcy or Lizzy. This expectation that the interest of the family usually overcomes any interests of the individual.

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Darcy botched the proposal by being rude to Elizabeth during it while she was already mad at him for how he treated her sister and Mr.Wickham

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Back then women were in competition and some of them tried to better than others and they portrayed that through their looks and their personal status and that compares to today how celebrities act as if they are above everyone because they have more money and popularity than someone, when at the end of that day it is all about passion and personality, not being flashy and thinking your above everyone else in society in everyway.

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I feel as if the aspect of rivalry still exists today, whether it's in a TV show, movie, and sometimes even in real life, some people today still seem to be going against each other over anything and it is still portrayed in moves, a women in a movie seems to always have some sort of rival or person that they having something against and in todays world it's still influenced to an extent, but it is still not as bad as it used to be, most people don't do it as much anymore and there are not as many rivalries but they are still prevalent today.

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Women were expected to be housewives, they were to only be useful for cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the children before their husband got home, none of them were ever really able to work in other jobs that involved hard labor, that was always considered the man job.

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I agree with Jack, he provided an entirely new perspective on the subject and made it clear to the reader what he believed and why. I also like how he gave examples from the specific videos.

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I agree with McMillan, this is something we see very often in modern day and even though it is a bit exaggerated on tv and in movies I doubt we will ever see it go away.

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In today's excerpts most expectations placed on women are stereotypes. They were expected to be a housewife and provide for their husband. They weren't allowed to have a job nor make big decisions in the household. Their main priorities were to take care of their family and cook and take care of their house.

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In the divisions of social classes we see that not only do people that come from wealth expect things to be easy and handed to them but also people to sort of bow down to them or show them extra sympathy/ respect. You can also see this in the male female dynamic as well.

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I like how Abbey mentioned the fact that there is still feminine rivalry still present today in social media and even in movies/tv shows. This was such a real and dramatic thing that used to be an actual problem in their time, whereas now it really isn't horrible because most females have come to their senses.

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The excerpts we read embodied the female housewife stereotype we see all around, especially in movies and several years ago. Women were expected to stay home, care for their children, cook, clean, and please their husbands. It was also very rare that a woman was allowed to show ambition, and often had to pretend to be dumber than she actually was.

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I agree with what Haley said because even though the men see the women as inferior to them, they also expect very high things from them and rely on them to keep things running and organized. This creates unfair expectations, and Elizabeth rebelling against these set roles is what leads to some of the conflicts in Pride and Prejudice

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I agree with Caroline and Abbey, you can see a clear division in social class in the novel. The roles of women and men is one example. As well as the manner presented in the novel.

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I noticed that women roles were more homebound. During that time, women had very high roles to basically be home and help their man. They were expected to be good at home like taking care of the house and their kids.

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I agree with Caroline, the novel shows class divisions as well as gender divisions all in terms of marriage. The wealthy act like they are the most important even though money doesn't make you more worthy of anything.

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Abbey, I liked how you compared the feminine rivalry of Caroline and Elizabeth to the rivalry that women in movies/tv shows have today over a boy. I also believe that rivalries aren't as prevalent in today's society, but in my opinion, it is because people tend to keep their jealousy of others to themselves instead of acting on it. In addition to workplace rivalries, through promotions and pay, I believe that emotions of others fuel rivalry the most.

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This feminine rivalry is something very observable today, but mainly in media. In most movies there is always a woman that seems to be against the main female character and the rivalry is just there to push the main character but I feel like this rivalry isn't much there in real life. It has changed because the rivalry seems to mostly be in workplace situations but in this Caroline just wants attention. Things have stayed the same because there are a lot of feminine rivalries over a boy in the media and it seems like Caroline is jealous of Elizabeth.

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During Austen's time marriage helped with financial security and status which was important for people of the time. Since the Bennet daughters won't inherit anything from their father they have to consider the money aspect of marriage which matches up with Austen's time. It is different for everyone which is most important but I would say, especially for Elizabeth, that love is most important. She doesn't seem like the person who takes marriage for granted and she actually wants to be in love if she is getting married. Today, definitely more people marry for love because status and money are not as important.

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I believe that Darcy ruined his proposal from the get-go. His first perception of Elizabeth was that she was unattractive and since no other man was dancing with her, he wouldn't either. With all of the things that led up to the proposal and even after the proposal, it is clear that Elizabeth did not overreact. The reason that Darcy botched the proposal is because of his impression that he already made on Elizabeth. She disliked him from the beginning and felt that throughout the proposal, Darcy was continuing his arrogant tendencies. Additionally, during Darcy's proposal, he continued talking about her sister's suffering and kept pointing out the fact that she was a lower status.

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During Austen's time, some considerations that went into marriage included the social stability and economic stability of their spouse. In my opinion, based on the Elizabeth's attitude toward Darcy, some of the most important things when contemplating marriage are affection, respect, and love. I believe that these are overlying motifs in this story because Elizabeth chose not to marry Darcy, despite the fact that he had money and a higher social status. These values do align to factors that influence marriage today because many people marry out of love of one another instead of financial status. Being happy and loving one another it the most important thing in marriages today.

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I agree with Lauren because she mentioned how women had very high explanations placed on them as they were not only expected to be good with housework and rearing children, but also perfectly balancing that with being smart and just the right amount of ambition.

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I think that Darcy botched the proposal because 1. It was a bad time due to him hurting her sister, and 2. He insulted her while proposing by saying he could never bring himself to propose to her until now because of her low status. Elizabeth did not overreact because she was clearly being insulted at the same time Darcy was confessing his love. His pride and hubris were so strong that he couldn't even treat her with respect.

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I agree with McMillan's response, however, I feel that these rivalries tend to be more publicized in TV/movies these days rather than in real life. I do feel that they exist in both reality and in stories, but it depends on the type of people you see, and might not only be towards men. E.g. there could be a rivalry in the workplace for promotions, and this rivalry exists between more than just the women.

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The considerations that go into marriage in that time period were economic security as well as social standing. Nowadays, a lot of marriages are formed on the basis of love, but there are still a lot of a cases where their are still arranged marriages. However, the basis of love was still seen as important as Darcy ignored Elizabeth's social standing, and the fact that Elizabeth rejected Darcy's proposal even though he had a good economic condition.

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I believe that Darcy botched the proposal and that it was Darcy's fault, not Elizabeth's. Darcy was already on thin ice after he was rude to Elizabeth sabotaged her sister by separating her from her love and putting her in misery. Also, Darcy was way too snobby and arrogant during his proposal. If I was Elizabeth, I wouldn't marry him either.

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This is something that we still see today in various forms of media from modern books, tv, and movies

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This is something very observable in modern media. It even has its own name of a love triangle. Usually it is two girls pining after a man but the roles are reversed sometimes. There have also been cases of a more unbiased view of both woman by the storyteller instead of a good girl versus a bad one. However, there are still examples of both in modern media.

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I agree with Haley because she says that women were typically participating in "homebound" activities which reflected the housewife idea from earlier time periods.

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During this time, a big part of marriage is financial security. The Bennet girls were poor and needed to marry into a rich family in order to keep their needs met. However, financial security is not the only factor. If it was, Elizabeth would have married Darcy despite his snootiness. There are other reasons for marriage (love and happiness) which explains why Elizabeth chose to not marry Darcy.

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There is a huge division between social class and manners in today's excerpts. As evidenced by Darcy, being wealthy is desirable, which makes the wealthy think that they are better than everyone else and they therefore do not need to be polite to others.

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There was a clear divide between the roles and manners between men and women in the excerpts. Women were facing inequality issues and there were other divides between genders during the period.

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The social and gender divisions were very very prevalent here, as there are even differences between the women. Women struggled for equality, but they also create divides mainly based on social class. In the video clips we can see physical differences between Ms. Bingsley and Elizabeth, as Elizabeth wears a very plain dress while Caroline's has more color and frills. You can also see in the ways they talk and the different customs that Caroline Bingsley has. I think this divide still goes on today as there are still prevalent divides between social classes that cause differing thoughts and ways people carry on with their lives.

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I believe that Darcy botched the proposal. A proposal should be an admittance of unyielding love, and yet, Darcy insulted Elizabeth and admitted his previous varying feelings to her. No one wants to hear about how they are not good enough for someone, no matter how true or false it is. So stating such things in a proposal is injustice to Elizabeth. Her reaction is completely understandable, as anyone would be outraged to hear such things, let alone during a proposal.

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Women's roles were more hands on in terms of working at home and raising kids. They were expected to be a perfect balance of smart, ambitious (but not too ambitious), and nurturing.

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Some considerations that seem to go into marriage during this time all revolve around money and status. Darcy considered that Elizabeth was of a lower status than him and his family, that most of her family was an embarrassment, and that she didn't have anything to inherit to her name. Usually, in this time, it seemed as these factors would prevent a marriage from happening. However, Darcy was overwhelmed with his love for Elizabeth, so he ignored these things and led to a proposal.

I think that Darcy's actions line up with our values today. Some people value money and status (security) in marriage over genuine love, but most people marry for love. I feel like marrying for money only really happens within the upper classes because if someone is marrying "up" (marrying into an upper class), there would have to be some genuine feelings involved.

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When the idea of a perfect woman comes up, one characters says how a perfect woman should know many languages, have knowledge on lots of special topics, and also be sophisticated but respectful. The expectations are to high and unrelaistic standards if thats what every high class man is expecting.

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Women were pretty much expected to do house jobs to support a man and a family, since they had to chase a man to achieve a viable living. In this exact case she was chasing a man for his wealth to support.

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We learn that even within classes that seem the same, there are still divisions. In these excerpts, we see that there is a division between the women in the higher class. Caroline Bingley is seen to be of higher status in the clothes that she wears, the activities she partakes in, and the way that she carries herself. Elizabeth Bennet is seen of a lower status because of the way she dresses, because she reads, and most importantly, because she doesn't have anything to her name. I definitely think that this goes on today. Even within the middle class we hear the terms "upper and lower middle class" and everything revolves around the way we dress, the way we carry ourselves, and the activities we partake in.

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Women at the time were expected to be able to do many homebound and partying activities such as dancing, singing, table making, how they walk and talk (the air of their voice), and they must be profound in various other languages. Darcy responds to these things by saying that he expects a woman to be well-read as well. Based on Elizabeth's response to this, reading does not appear to be a commonality among women, hence Darcy's budding interest in her. These expectations reflected that of the stereotype of an old-time housewife, which would make sense based on the time period this was written in.

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I think this is also observable in modern media, for example movies and TV shows. Some things dont really change, people will still fight over a girl/boy. I doubt that will ever change.