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SAVAGERY WINS

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Together they symbolize order of civilization and power

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Together they represent how power can only exist if people listen and the destruction of the conch shows how the boys are completely done with any rule and order and are fully savage

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Together they symbolize civilization and what makes us human, and when destroyed our instincts thrive and we lose what makes us human.

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Togther Piggy an the Conch are civilization, ties to the boys that landed on the island and not the ones curently there and without the conch and pigggy they sybolise the lose of all thoose things resulting in a horrible future

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Piggy symbolizes order

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When they're together there's order and rationality but now that they're destroyed the island is going to be chaos

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Megan *thumbs up*

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together, they symbolize the need for order and power, which come together to symbolize rationality and civilization, both of which are destroyed along with Piggy and the conch.

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Together the conch and Piggy symbolize a regular civilization, but now that is all gone the island is going to be chaos.

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Piggy Symbolizes rational thought

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piggy and the conch together symbolize society and humanity and when they're destroyed together by the savages, it shows the savages taking over and creating chaos

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Piggy symbolizes rationality

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When you put these two together it represents order and civilization and when the two are destroyed together it is like all humanity and order is also destroyed with it

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together they represent the organized order on the island and when they are both taken from the book the other boys will no longer have this order

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Piggy symbolizes rationality and is the opposite of savage

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The conch symbolizes humanity and order.

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Piggy symbolizes order and togetherness ... being destroyed represents chaos

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Piggy symbolizes rationality

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Piggy symbolizes rational thought

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Piggy symbolizes rationality and humanity

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Piggy symbolizes the belief that society and order are best for humanity.

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Piggy symbolizes rationality and intelligence

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Piggy symbolizes rationality and leadership

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The conch symbolizes civilization and order.

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The conch symbolizes Piggy

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The conch symbolizes humanity and order.

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If they're both destroyed together, I think that means its inevitable that there is going to be a destructive ending to their time on the island.

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The conch symbolizes humanity

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But since it broke now all that is gone.

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I think conch symbolizes a belief of Piggy's so that's why it leaves when Piggy dies. Because he had the most faith in it, it was taken with him at his death.

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The conch symbolizes order and power

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I interpret it as the conch symbolizes order and unity while Piggy symbolizes reason and logic. The combination of these symbols is civilization and when they are both destroyed it as if the ideas of civilization of the island are destroyed

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I like Andrew's point of the conch's power. It's clear that it still has a semblance of power, and this could indicate that the shattering of the conch is representative of the loss of all civilization.

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The conch symbolizes power and order

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So what does the conch symbolize? And what does Piggy symbolize? And what is the result of that combination of symbols? And what does it mean when both are destroyed together?

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Wow Andrew, you're doing great, good ideas after good ideas!

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I agree with Paige, when piggy died the conch "died". I thought that was interesting.

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Good question, Adithy. And what's with Piggy's devotion to the conch?

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on Paige's point about going home, no one except Ralph and Piggy have ever mentioned about wanting to go home. It's as if the boys are so young and influenceable that this island is all they know. Also Jack has now been their only main role model growing up so that is their only example of how to act and behave

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I agree with Abby that Piggy really saw the true power of the conch and that is why he was the one who cared about it the most, but also Piggy may be getting too attached to one thing and that is why he believes in it so much more than everyone else

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Yerp, Amanda...I agree. It seems like a small detail (loose baby teeth) but wowza. It's a hard slap across the face for the reader.

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I agree with Alex, children adapt to their surroundings, therefore they're adapting to the people they're around on the island so yes they might make bad decisions but that's just what kids do because they think that it's ok or normal at this point probably, especially because they're influenced by an older boy

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I noticed golding not using jacks name, instead using chief ^

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I like how Paige is pointing out the denial within all of the boys, especially since Jack will have almost no talk of the death of Simon.

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I don't think that rescue is the ultimate intention of the game the boys are playing. I think that it's Ralph's view, but there may be two games and maybe Jack just isn't playing Ralph's game, but instead his own game that involves being happy with the current conditions and having fun.

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The conch might only be the little bit of faith the boys have for their humanity.

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Becca's comment about the progression to savagery as a possibility for all of us gets at the heart of Golding's theme.

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I think Adithy made a good point that Gilding brought up this motif again because readers have become so into the book

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I agree with Adithy's idea of the littluns still being children and how we must think about that while we judge their actions .

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kudos to Andrew for picking up on that point about the losing tooth. That small detail went over my head but really shows how crazy it is that these boys are acting as savages and killing people while still so young and supposed to be innocent

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W

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I noticed that too, Becca. I think that Golding just wanted to show the dehumanization of Jack furthering the point that Mrs. Heaton made about jack not showing a little bit of emotion, he still is just as savage as he was before

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I again liked Andrew's point on how an association with names represents societal and civilized functions.

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And Becca with an examination of diction..for the win!

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Thanks

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That's a good point, Spencer.

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I agreed with Abby's Idea of how they were fearful of Jack causing them to lose the rational thinking because of  listening to him

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I don't agree with Becca when she says that the fire doesn't symbolize anyhting. Golding thinks about every line in his book and has reason behind it and there are many "dying" aspects in the book currently

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Piggy symbolised order an civilization

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The conch Symbolizes power and civilization

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The conch symbolizes power and civilization.

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The conch symbolizes their tie to civilization and order

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Does anyone else wonder why Roger was so prominent in chapter 11? Why did Golding spend so much time with him this chapter and even in the last sentence of the chapter?

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I agree Rebecca

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The conch symbolizes the rules

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I'm going to disagree with the idea that Jack has some civility left...after Piggy is killed, Jack "bounded out from the tribe and began screaming wildly. See? See? That's what you'll get! I meant that!" (181).

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I like that Spencer is not controlling the conversation this time.

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Mind Blown

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Shoot*

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Piggy found the conch, and the conch is destroyed with him.

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I love Amandas point and I did not make that connection when I first read the chapters

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Becca Thats a really good point about the differences in the deaths of Simon of Piggy I found it very insightful

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Bobby: Piggy is like the sow...caretaking, etc. That's interesting.

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I agree with amanda that roger has flipped sides

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Amanda examining diction (Piggy/pig)...

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very good point by bobby with the mother pig

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Oh sh Amanda I didn't realize that woahhhhhhhh

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The Conch symbolizes the set of rules. While Piggy symbolizes the law and civilization. When put together it represent the government.

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Connor added well to Megans statement

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I likes point of the boys not only mentally becoming more beastly but also physically with the paint and the hair back

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This is super impressive analysis...Connor is digging into a passage, thinking about Golding's intent, and then coming to a conclusion. Connor- that is the OPPOSITE of "I feel like..."  Well done, you.

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And Megan with an examination of diction...brilliant (children to savages).

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I noticed that they were being called savages too and thought this was very important

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I like how Tyler used text evidence and read this very important part to start us off on an purposeful note.

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I agree with spencer because the fire slowly gets smaller like Ralph's group and then goes out.

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It's intresting as Connor said that the boys physical apearance as savages in more comfortable, I too agree that Goulding  is trying to say its natural and comforting to regrease instictly

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I like how Connor noticed their physical appearance tying in with the boys' savagery.

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That's SUCH an impactful passage, and so very important, Tyler. Thank you for reading aloud Piggy's death scene.

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I liked how becca disagreed with paige about the fire symbolizing something

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Hello Friends

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to add on to Becca's idea, I also noticed that after Piggy was killed Jack and the savages had no remorse, they even set him as an example, saying see this will be you next, I found it interesting how much they had regressed morally

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I agree with Paige that if piggy is only one who believes in the conchs power that means that the conch has no real power. I also think piggy also was the only one keeping the idea of the conch alive and with his death the belief died with him.

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I agree with Andrew how the dying of the fire is a representation of the dying of Ralph's group because Golding shows that they need more people to tend the fire.

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I agree with Becca on the point of the glasses, but could there be more meaning behind the glasses. They are on the cover of the book so they must be important.

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OMG I had the same thought, as I was reading the chapter. It was so interesting to me  because Rodger has lost the mind set of discipline.

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Adding to Amanda's idea, the death of Simon was similar but it wasn't intentional. But, piggy's death was fully intentional similar to how they intentionally hunted pigs. This shows the boys increased savagery and they have gotten to the point where they are okay with murdering one of their own.