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Jander thanks for your response! I want to add a little onto my response in that we do often "blame" our mistakes on the fall but it is also important to remember that those are still our mistakes and that they involve consequences all the same. Also, I completely agree that we should be dealing with students differently because o our faith and view of the student as image bearer. I think that the difference is grace. We know the grace that is present for God's children and that should be showing in our teaching. Each teacher shows love in a different way and they are not better or worse because of it. But our students should see the evidences of us as image bearers as well. That we know we are also fallen and need God's grace too.

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Exactly! What is the point without understanding why? We'll end up teaching a bunch of facts with nothing to connect them to. Facts that will be forgotten quickly. My question is, why are we still teaching content in certain classes that we can't connect to a bigger "why"?

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This "intellectual storage" bit is the piece I keep coming back to as one of the most foundational differences in the two sources. I keep thinking, how can I avoid treating my students as intellectual storage in my classes. The question shouldn't be, "how can I avoid it?", but "how can I make our studies heart centred for real action!?"

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Beliefs = important! I think it's important to work with students to get them to be able to articulate what they believe. Then help them see how their inherent beliefs effect the way they view the world. Other than mentioning "prior knowledge," CMU might seem to look at students as a complicated blank slate to be filled or "taught at." Understanding that there are beliefs shaping the way the world is viewed is essential

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"When we do something correct or something incorrect it means something completely different to the learner and the teacher."
Yes, as a teacher working with fallen image bearers, I can often "blame" certain poor choices/mistakes on the fact that we are fallen and yet have hope for the redemption/restoration of that image. A non-believing teacher might blame it on the students' age or directly the student. If secular and believing teachers  can have different views of the source of mistakes/sin, is it possible that we treat our students differently because of it?  My argument would be, "Yes - our dealing with students should be different!"  However, I have worked with non-believing teachers who seem to demonstrate much more love than I ever could

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I think this concept applies to a broader scope as well. If I think about music education, one of the best methods is the "Orff" method - which is focused primarily on doing and then working for understanding. I think a lot of subject areas could benefit from this inductive approach. Do first, understand later.

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Yes! Have you watched or read any Simon Sinek? One of the most viewed TED talks ever: https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action?language=en

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Without a "why" was is the point? Learning just for learning without a deeper purpose leaves me wondering what's the point. Funny how we as humans are designed and created to need purpose. Whatever we do there has to be a purpose and the purpose truly is for God. He created us to desire Him and draw to Himself.
-Kody

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this is really foundational isn't it? Without the understanding of my sinfulness and hope in Jesus, learning/teaching would lose so much purpose and meaning.
-Kody

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The "why" is why we all love what we do so much. the "why" is kids meeting Christ. It is humbling that we get to be a part of that process!

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It seems so empty without the why, doesn't it?

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Beliefs cannot be taken out of the equation at all! What we believe is the heart of what we do! Beliefs, of whichever kind, must be part of the story.

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Kevin, I am so glad you pointed that out how Grahm starts by explaining the importance of being a fallen image bearer. This is the absolute foundation of education. This is a major difference in thinking between Grahm and CMU. When we doing something correct or something incorrect it means something completely different to the learner and teacher. Also, you meantioned CMU's importance on goals. By being a fallen image bearer our goals are significantly different as well. Thanks for your thoughts.

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Thanks for your response! I love the analogy that you used to describe the importance of gettin our students active in their work. I really like how Grahm put it in his text as well that as children of God we don't actually know how He is until we start to do His work. It is then that we start to understand what it means to be children of God.

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Re: Holistic

But it only seems wholistic to us who come from a biblical framework. I find it interesting (but not surprising) that almost every post on this padlet that recognizes differences comes at it from "CMU is different than Graham." As in, Graham is the foundation, it can't be wrong...
-Jander-

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I just saw your comment and referenced the same book for Lori. I think the point of "no neutrality" in that book is such a great point. It also seems to align with what the Bible says about lukewarm Christians. There is no middle ground, if we are not for God, then we are for the opposite. In a world that loves to see a lot of grey, it is not easy to always see black and white...
-Kody

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I really like how you said this Lori, Graham speaks about heart and how out of the heart comes action. This reminds of the gospel of Luke which says, "out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks." What is in our heart does lead to action.
-Kody

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I think beliefs not being mentioned is a reflection of our culture trying to secularize learning, or at least trying to be neutral, but we know there is no such thing as neutrality. In The Cause of Christian Education, Edlin says that either something is religious or non-religious, there is no middle ground. What is your viewpoint, Lori?
-Kody

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Thanks Lori!!

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I really liked how you phrased it - Graham is a holistic approach.  That is the major difference in the end.  I appreciate the way you phrased it! - Kevin K

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Re: Actions and Beliefs

While Graham mentions that actions result from our beliefs, I was glad that he mentioned that actions have consequences to our beliefs as well. I was reminded of the importance of active learning in this case and something I read (I think it was from Tim Keller). The author mentioned that although we need nutrition and carbs to do exercise, eating a massive meal does not motivate you to go for a long run after your last bite. However, often we have a massive appetite after finishing a long run. He mentioned that the same applies to living out our lives as Christians. If we sit and focus on developing our beliefs/understanding, we might just remain "seated." However, if we get out and do, we often gain an appetite to learn about what we've just taken part in. - Jander -

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Re: No Neutrality

Kailee, I'm glad you brought up that book. I found that extremely impactful (and scary)! I find this has major implications when reviewing the sources. When I read them, while CMU has merit and is accurate, I find Graham's has a sense of purpose and REAL merit because it's grounded in who we are, not just how we work.
I think this can apply to us in our use of resources in the classroom. I think we often quickly adopt texts/sources that are accurate and even excellent; however, miss the biblical worldview framework that should wrap in and through everything we do with our students. - Jander

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Again, I’ll try to refrain from repeating what many of you have mentioned, but here is my overview:

The CMU source seems like a bunch of separate ideas, Graham is a holistic approach. While the CMU ideas are important, they seem isolated and lacking on their own after reading from Graham. Graham’s approach gives us as educators an understanding of “why” the ideas are important (beyond the fact that they help the student learn).
-Jander

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I’ll try to bring new ideas in, but it seems much has been said already. I'll add more in discussion.

Both sources discuss the importance of quality environments.

Both sources also discuss the need to be involved in the learning process, although Graham seems to be much clearer about getting past the passiveness in education than the CMU reading.
-Jander

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Kevin, I noticed this as well, though neglected to put it in my list. Graham does not directly address the assessment relationship between students and teachers.

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This is a perfect way of explaining this difference. I was having a hard time putting it into words and I loved how you said it here...connected ideas and experience versus connected to the heart. Thanks so much!! Kevin k

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CMU puts a really high emphasis on goal directed learning and targeted feedback in order for there to be optimal student learning.  This is not clearly present in Graham's list.  The CMU list also promotes motivation in a way that is very different from the way that Graham presents it.  graham says that "learning must touch the learners hearts" CMU says "motivation plays a critical role in guiding the direction, intensity, persistence, and quality of the learning behaviors in which they engage."

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CMU puts a really high emphasis on goal directed learning and targeted feedback in order for there to be optimal student learning.  This is not clearly present in Graham's list.  The CMU list also promotes motivation in a way that is very different from the way that Graham presents it.  graham says that "learning must touch the learners hearts" CMU says "motivation plays a critical role in guiding the direction, intensity, persistence, and quality of the learning behaviors in which they engage."

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kevin k

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Graham starts by saying that what it means to be "a fallen a redeemed image bear should have an impact on our view of learning/teaching" - this is not present in CMU

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Graham starts by saying that what it means to be "a fallen a redeemed image bear should have an impact on our view of learning/teaching" - this is not present in CMU

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Kevin K

CMU - one of the biggest principals is that there is goal directed practice and targeted feedback. There is no mention of this from Graham - he leans much more on how our beliefs direct our action how as we act "the consequences of our actions form new information and events for us to incorporate into our belief systems"  - Kevin K

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Graham starts by saying that what it means to be "a fallen a redeemed image bear should have an impact on our view of learning/teaching" - this is not present in CMU

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Graham starts by saying that what it means to be "a fallen a redeemed image bear should have an impact on our view of learning/teaching" - this is not present in CMU

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Kevin K

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CMU-shares at length how students are not just intellectual but also social and emotional and that we as teachers need to shape the climate of our classroom to help students emotionally, physically, intellectually and socially.  Graham I don't think would disagree with this..he says it differently when he says, "all the dimensions of what it means...have and impact on our view of learning"  Not quite the same...Both lists are very concerned with the student and for the student to be an active participant in their own learning.  -Both lists also talk at length are heredity and environment playing a significant role in learning.  I think that is really important that they both include that. - Kevin K

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CMU-shares at length how students are not just intellectual but also social and emotional and that we as teachers need to shape the climate of our classroom to help students emotionally, physically, intellectually and socially.  Graham I don't think would disagree with this..he says it differently when he says, "all the dimensions of what it means...have and impact on our view of learning"  Not quite the same...Both lists are very concerned with the student and for the student to be an active participant in their own learning.  -Both lists also talk at length are heredity and environment playing a significant role in learning.  I think that is really important that they both include that. - Kevin K

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Lori - to add to your comment of Kody's thoughts. In another class that I am taking we are reading The Cause of Christian Education the author explains that there is no such thing as neutrality in education. Even when one says they are not promoting a belief, for example secular education, they are then in fact supporting a type of belief in itself. How do you think this applies to the two sources? I also find it interesting that it is not somewhere included in the Carnegie source since what we believe tends to set the foundation of everything else we learn and take in.

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Both authors explain that a student’s prior knowledge or experiences affect how they relate to new information and what they will believe to be true.

Both sources express the importance of taking action in what students learn. Grahm explains that actions are a result of our beliefs. Authors form Carnegie state that must practice tasks after they acquire skills and knowledge.

Both sources call for the learner to be active. Students learn when they experience something and are able to apply it to their previous understandings. Grahm explains that actions are a result of our beliefs but we also gain beliefs by the consequences of our actions. Authors from Carnegie explain that student work must be practiced and then receive feedback where students are able to progress in the desired direction.

Both Grahm and Carnegie discuss the effects of the environment and the effects that it can make on a student’s development in multiple areas. This can then effect their success in the classroom or how they interact with others. ��љ�Z�L

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Both authors explain that a student’s prior knowledge or experiences affect how they relate to new information and what they will believe to be true.

Both sources express the importance of taking action in what students learn. Grahm explains that actions are a result of our beliefs. Authors form Carnegie state that must practice tasks after they acquire skills and knowledge.

Both sources call for the learner to be active. Students learn when they experience something and are able to apply it to their previous understandings. Grahm explains that actions are a result of our beliefs but we also gain beliefs by the consequences of our actions. Authors from Carnegie explain that student work must be practiced and then receive feedback where students are able to progress in the desired direction.

Both Grahm and Carnegie discuss the effects of the environment and the effects that it can make on a student’s development in multiple areas. This can then effect their success in the classroom or how they interact with others. ��љ�Z�L

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Kody - it is interesting that beliefs aren't mentioned. Is this a reflection of our current culture trying to secularize learning? (I'm thinking of Graham's discussion about the sacred/secular dichotomy on page 182)

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The way information is organized has a different emphasis.  The researches stay in a more practice and performance framework with connected ideas and experiences while a Biblical framework requires learning to be connected to the heart in order to have any meaningful impact.

For the researchers, motivation seems to be more about sustaining and processing information.  For Graham, motivation is more about doing God's work as a response to our learning.  It is about acting out our image bearing qualities.  When learning reflects a heart commitment, there arises an internal desire to respond.

While there are many commonalities, it is the foundation of these two lists that differ dramatically. As Kody says at the top of his list, the researchers focus on "intellectual storage" with some mention of applying our learning. For Graham, learning is so much more about speaking to the heart and building a heart commitment that leads to action.

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Both the researchers and Graham make a connection between how we organize our knowledge and has an impact on how we learn and progress.

The researchers seem to have a clear understanding of motivation in learning just as Graham would discuss that learning is for purpose.  We are purposeful beings and act meaningfully.  The researchers suggest that motivation is what determines, directs, and sustains learning.

Both of these lists address the role of the environment.  There is an understanding that we are influenced by what happens around us and that there are certain ingredients that form a positive learning environment.

The researchers and Graham address the fuller nature of the student. The researchers mention social, emotional, and intellectual aspects of learners as well as their need to become self-directed and responsible. As image bearers, we hold those same characteristics. We are responsible and purposeful learners, we live and learn in community, we are rational and creative. In teaching, we need to include full complement of characteristics.

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Fallen and redeemed image bearer perspective of humans

The educational researchers don’t seem to view learning as more than intellectual storage or assent. Graham, however, says learning is accepting something as truth, committing to it at the heart level, and acting on what has been learned.

Graham speaks to the effect of a person’s beliefs on their actions which in turn create opportunities for gaining new information that will impact beliefs. The educational researchers don’t mention anything about a belief systems and its impact on learning.

Graham mentions the impact of heredity on learning. The educational researchers do not mention this directly, however, one could argue that it is implied. fal�VG��

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Hi Everyone! This is Kody. A few thoughts...

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Hi Everyone! This is Kody. A few thoughts...

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Both lists of principles seem to speak about heart. The list from educational researchers does not directly reference the heart but they do speak of motivation and finding positive value in a learning goal. When a student finds positive value in a learning goal, I believe that is a reflection of their heart.

Both Graham and the educational researchers speak to the influence of environment in helping or hindering learning.

Both lists talk about acting on acquired knowledge. They seem to say that acquiring knowledge is important but then also knowing how and when to apply that knowledge is key.

Both lists talk about environment and how a positive environment can have a positive impact on learning. Also, a negative environment can have a negative impact on learning.

Both lists also seemed to be talking about the importance of self-actualized learning. Whether this is based on motives from the heart or to improve performance, both lists seem to promote the idea of reaching one’s highest potential.